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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » The Case for Darth Tenebrous


The Case for Darth Tenebrous
Started by: Beniboybling

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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:25 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

lol You edited it again to just the emoticon? laughing out loud

Your attempts to dismiss the Tenebrous case are getting shittier each time, lmfao.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:26 AM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

I love how people shit on my ranking of Tenebrous, but don't bat an eye when people grossly overrated him [E.I. the hilarity of Tene > Valk] among other things.

I guess retarded opinions is okay as long as it aligns with your shit stances. thumb up


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:27 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

Yeah, given how high I have Bane, I have more reason to scale Tenebrous than anyone else... but Tenebrous>Valk is cancer


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:29 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I love how people shit on my ranking of Tenebrous, but don't bat an eye when people grossly overrated him [E.I. the hilarity of Tene > Valk] among other things.

I guess retarded opinions is okay as long as it aligns with your shit stances. thumb up


I called Az out on that on CV. Nobody else believes that, I don't think.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:30 AM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: ???????


 

So raise Tenebrous on the account of others achievements and abilities while ignoring the fact that we have no evidence as to how the other Sith were deposed of?

Yeah, why don't I just say a random padawan>valk on account of CW being the Golden age of the Jedi.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 04:51 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

False equivalency. Regardless of how the Sith were deposed of, we have more than one confirmation that each generation was more powerful than the previous; therefore, yes, it's definitely safe to assume the 28th lord is capable of a great deal more than the first. It's far and away more intellectually sturdy than trying to compare a random fledgeling Jedi to a legendary Sith based on the vague superiority of his era as a whole. (Not that the Jedi Order being in it's prime has any impact on Vitiate in the first place...?)


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Last edited by NewGuy01 on Jan 23rd, 2017 at 05:05 AM

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:03 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

There's no proof there were 30 generations though, just that there were thirty Sith in the Order over a thousand years, which would include the failed apprentices.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:03 AM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

What's your take on Tenebrous' ranking, NewGuy?


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:10 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

Dunno. Higher than Bane, lower than Plagueis. Probably closer to the latter than the former.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:12 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So raise Tenebrous on the account of others achievements and abilities while ignoring the fact that we have no evidence as to how the other Sith were deposed of?

Yeah, why don't I just say a random padawan>valk on account of CW being the Golden age of the Jedi.


Because of the fact that it's directly stated that each successive Banite Sith Lord was more powerful than the last? How they were disposed doesn't matter. Each Sith Lord still ended up becoming more powerful than their Master.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
There's no proof there were 30 generations though, just that there were thirty Sith in the Order over a thousand years, which would include the failed apprentices.


I'm pretty sure he refers to the actual Sith Lords, not failed apprentices? I'll check.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:51 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm pretty sure he refers to the actual Sith Lords, not failed apprentices? I'll check.

He's talking about Sith in the Order, no specification is made to them being masters.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:10 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

Yeah, but I'm not sure failed apprentices who didn't contribute to the plan qualify to him as members of the Order. Especially considering how Plagueis goes on immediately thereafter to say that it's one of the duties of Bane's lineage to take out the trash and eliminate "Sith pretenders."

Either way, from the cases we've seen, 30 is a fairly reasonable number. That would mean each Sith would have reigned for what, 33-ish years after killing their masters before being killed by their apprentices? That's a fair bit longer than Bane lived after killing his, although he was lucky enough to find his apprentice pretty shortly afterward.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:30 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, but I'm not sure failed apprentices who didn't contribute to the plan qualify to him as members of the Order.

And Zannah didn't do anything to contribute to or advance the Grand Plan before her overthrowing Bane? Sidious didn't contribute to the Grand Plan before overthrowing Plagueis? Maul, Dooku, and Vader didn't contribute at all to the Grand Plan?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Especially considering how Plagueis goes on immediately thereafter to say that it's one of the duties of Bane's lineage to take out the trash and eliminate "Sith pretenders."

There's a difference between Sith pretenders who are acting separately from the Banite Order and a Sith Lord who trained under a master, helped them advance the grand plan, then lost the final duel with their master.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Either way, from the cases we've seen, 30 is a fairly reasonable number. That would mean each Sith would have reigned for what, 33-ish years after killing their masters before being killed by their apprentices? That's a fair bit longer than Bane lived after killing his, although he was lucky enough to find his apprentice pretty shortly afterward.

Going off of the assumption that no master ever had to train a second apprentice because their first failed.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:39 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

Plagueis is speaking of Zannah from a thousand years after the fact, by which time she's cemented her contribution to the Banite Order by killing Bane and carrying on the lineage. He's currently teaching Sidious, so obviously he wouldn't be counted, and Maul/Tyranus/Vader didn't exist as Sith at the time. Not very good examples, tbh.

And they all contributed to the Grand Plan. Not sure what you're talking about.

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 23rd, 2017 at 06:55 AM

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:52 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

The point I'm making is that a Sith apprentice doesn't not contribute to the Grand Plan or count as a member of the Order until they overthrow their master.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:53 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

That made no sense. You used two negatives back to back, lol. Could you rephrase it?

Anyway, at best, you could argue that it's ambiguous what Plagueis is referring to.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 06:56 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
That made no sense. You used two negatives back to back, lol. Could you rephrase it?

Anyway, at best, you could argue that it's ambiguous what Plagueis is referring to.

Yes, one does not have to be a Sith master to count as a member of the Sith Order or contribute to the Grand Plan.

Zannah, Sidious, Maul, and Dooku all carried out tasks as apprentices that advanced the Grand Plan.

A person is not only given the Sith title or considered a member of the Order once they kill their master.

Plagueis is talking about people who have been Sith in Bane's order in the past millenium, and that isn't a statement that excludes a subset of people that were a part of the Order and were in fact Sith.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 07:03 AM
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Azronger
Head of Sheevism

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

I don't see why it's such an outlandish concept for some. Plagueis > Valkorion is accepted by many here, so that shouldn't raise any eyebrows. But then, when the gap between Tenebrous and prime Plagueis is very small (or at least the evidence points to that), people still laugh at the notion of Tenebrous > Valkorion. Why?


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 07:09 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Going off of the assumption that no master ever had to train a second apprentice because their first failed.


Not really; Bane's reign only lasted twenty years, and it being even that long can be attributed to the fact that his apprentice essentially sat on her thumbs for a long while. It'd still be perfectly reasonable for the average reign to be in the ballpark of thirty to thirty five years, even if we assume a few of the masters went through a couple failures.

Either way, it's not a big deal. We could go back and forth all day on the various unknowable factors that could affect the exact number of Lords during the 1000-year timeskip between DBT and Plagueis, and my point wouldn't change. Tenebrous and Bane would still be separated by many generations of Sith, each more powerful than the last.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 07:09 AM
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