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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Dark Empire: Luke vs. Palpatine


Dark Empire: Luke vs. Palpatine
Started by: The Merchant

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The Merchant
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Registered: Sep 2012
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Dark Empire: Luke vs. Palpatine

Whenever this topic is brought up, it's usually said by someone that Luke defeated Palpatine via the help of Leia, which is partially true. She did bond with Luke to cut off Palpatine powering his Force Storm and used Force Harmony on him.

However, people also say Leia empowered Luke during the Lightsaber duel before that Force Storm fiasco, which allowed Luke to cut Palps hand off. Where is the evidence that actually indicates that she empowered Luke during the dueling portion? In the comic there really isn't anything to suggest she bonded her power with him, the closest thing is when Luke asks her to bond with him says says "I already am" however that isn't solid since her phrasing it that way suggests she was in the process of bonding with him, not that she has bonded with him since the beginning or else she would said "I already have"

To support the idea that she didn't Force Bond with Luke, in the audiobook, skip to 2:25:40



During the duel, we see Leias point of view and this is what she says:

"They're both moving so fast I can hardly see them, I feel waves of power, the Dark side and the Light. But, I feel, the Light, is winning!"

Leia is actually surprised that "The Light" AKA Luke is winning and ofc Luke eventually does, slicing his hand off. She makes no indication she was giving her his power. Shortly after, when Palpatine unleashes his Force Storm in the Audiobook, Leia realizes that the Great Holocrons prophecy meant that she had to lend her power to Luke and join their powers together, indicating she wasn't doing that beforehand.

Not to mention no other source such as a guide that talks about the duel ever mentions Leia lended her power to Luke during the dueling portion, only during the Force Storm portion.

I could have obviously overlooked something, and if there's evidence that indicates Leia amped Luke during the dueling portion then please post. If not, DE Luke is seriously underestimated then and so is his later incarnations.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 01:28 AM
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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

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As Leia's intensity continues to unlock unexpected resources in Luke indicates that she had already been unlocking his potential before she joined in the Force Harmony. Besides, if Luke was truly Palpatine+ level at this point, then he would not be struggling with the likes of Sedriss.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:51 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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thumb up

One of the few times I've agreed with Azronger.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 05:33 AM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
As Leia's intensity continues to unlock unexpected resources in Luke indicates that she had already been unlocking his potential before she joined in the Force Harmony. Besides, if Luke was truly Palpatine+ level at this point, then he would not be struggling with the likes of Sedriss.


"Continues" does not give a specific time for when Leia began joined her power with his. She could have started a mere panel before. As The Merchant's post shows, she clearly had not begun to join her power to his until after the duel.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 05:53 AM
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MythLord
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Empire's End confirms she was using Battle Meditation to aid Luke during his fight with Palpatine... Why is this still so hard for people to accept?


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 08:45 AM
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ares834
Grand Moff

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Except it doesn't. Once again, no time frame is given. The audio drama makes confirms she wasn't helping Luke during the duel.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:05 PM
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thesithmaster
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Empire's End confirms she was using Battle Meditation to aid Luke during his fight with Palpatine... Why is this still so hard for people to accept?


thumb up

Without the amp, Luke was humiliated by a toying Palpatine. DE Palpatine >>> DE Luke.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:13 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

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On a massive dark side nexus. Palpatine even taunts him in the drama saying, "Did you think you could conquer me by coming here to this. To the very heart of the dark side."


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:20 PM
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thesithmaster
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
On a massive dark side nexus. Palpatine even taunts him in the drama saying, "Did you think you could conquer me by coming here to this. To the very heart of the dark side."


On a massive Dark Side nexus where Palpatine confirmed that Luke was using the new powers Palpatine taught him (Dark Side powers) and when Palpatine had just transferred his essence to a new clone body, meaning he had to fight as soon as he transferred his essenc into a new body.

Palpatine's feats are also miles ahead of Luke. All the evidence points to DE Palpatine>>>>>>>DE Luke.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:28 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Yes. Dark side powers he just began to use and was still a novice at.

Except losing to Luke in a duel. Yes, Palpatine is still more powerful at the time, I'll not disagree with that. But Luke is the superior duelist.


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Last edited by ares834 on Aug 13th, 2017 at 04:36 PM

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:33 PM
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TenebrousWay
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Except it doesn't. Once again, no time frame is given. The audio drama makes confirms she wasn't helping Luke during the duel.


quote:
LUKE: NO!!! I made a mistake! I thought I had to save the galaxy alone. All by myself. But the way of the Jedi is not a solitary path. LEIA: (gasps suddenly) The Holocron!! Luke, the Holocron told me to “join with my brother!” LUKE: (realizing) Yes. The Force binds us. Brings us TOGETHER. Many people are fighting this war—-together!! Our ally IS the Force! Through the strength of the Force, your shroud of evil has been lifted from my mind! Sound: The Emperor’s own lightsaber activates.

STAR WARS: DARK EMPIRE 1 AUDIO ADAPTATION TRANSCRIPT


It's less clear than in the comics but I'd say there's certainly evidence that Leia actually helped Luke.

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:44 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Yes. She helps him break free from the dark side. That's it. They then actually join after the duel to cut off Palpatine from his storm.


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Last edited by ares834 on Aug 13th, 2017 at 04:48 PM

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:46 PM
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TenebrousWay
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No, no. It's just before the duel. Leia says that in the audiobook in the same moment she gains that aura in the comics.

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:48 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

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Yeah, I edited my post. However, she doesn't actually join with him yet (as we see shortly afterwards). She doesn't realize what to do until after the duel. If anything, it's more of a teaching moment with her reminding Luke that the force connects everything.


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Last edited by ares834 on Aug 13th, 2017 at 04:51 PM

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:48 PM
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TenebrousWay
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Yep, I noticed. smile

I think it's pretty unclear considering the situation in the audiobook and the comics. You have a point considering Leia view herself as a third party during their duel and later when she tells Luke "Let me add my power to yours", which can be interpretated that she didn't before. In the comics she confirms she joined Luke against Palpatine.

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 04:53 PM
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Beniboybling
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The audio supports her Force bonding with him as well. Whereas lending her powers to Luke does not preclude her being surprised at him winning, nor being able to track their fighting. Weak argument. sad


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Aug 13th, 2017 at 06:42 PM

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 06:37 PM
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MythLord
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Registered: Feb 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Except it doesn't. Once again, no time frame is given. The audio drama makes confirms she wasn't helping Luke during the duel.


It does. Vima-Da-Booda says she was using Battle Meditation to aid her brother in defeating the Emperor. I imagine that's what it is referring to, given what they do afterwards is a Force Bond/Harmony thing.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 06:39 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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if we go by the audio book, luke doesn't come close to blitzing sids as he does in the comic

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 06:50 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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also luke recognizes that de palps can't control the amount of power he's unleashing

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 06:53 PM
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TenebrousWay
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
also luke recognizes that de palps can't control the amount of power he's unleashing


That's recognized in comics as well.

By the way, there's a potentially good feat for Ood Bnar to add for his respect thread Wollf: He apparently shields a sappling from his sacrifical explosion and potentially infuses it with part of his life energy/power.

quote:
JEM: A tiny sapling! Pushing it’s way out of the ground! KAM: Looks like Master Ood left a descendant behind. LUKE: What was it the Holocron said? “Someone who was dead may yet live. Although men may forget it’s name, the Force can never die.” Now Master Ood has left someone to carry on his Jedi power.

STAR WARS: DARK EMPIRE II AUDIO ADAPTATION TRANSCRIPT

Old Post Aug 13th, 2017 07:17 PM
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