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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Mace and the Invisible Hand


Mace and the Invisible Hand
Started by: DarthAnt66

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UCanShootMyNova
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Ant. I don't care how you try to twist this to suit what you're saying. I'm just trying to be a friend to you right now and apart of being a friend is informing you when you're reaching so far up your own ass the public just won't accept it anymore. This is one of those times.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:12 AM
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Zenwolf
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Mace was only shown to be exhausted at the end of the fight where he gets killed, not before. He wasn't really shown as being exhausted after his fight with Sidious either in the movie, so him being exhausted before the fight in game doesn't add up.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:12 AM
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DarthAnt66
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ant. I don't care how you try to twist this to suit what you're saying. I'm just trying to be a friend to you right now and apart of being a friend is informing you when you're reaching so far up your own ass the public just won't accept it anymore. This is one of those times.

My argument is based on the premise of author intent, in this case the intent of Lucas. The fact you don't care for author intent doesn't mean I'm wrong. It's also worth noting that we've conducted a poll on this in 2016 and a (slight) majority of the public sided with me on this.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:18 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Yeah, he's not expending any energy to keep up with Palpatine in a duel and block his lightning...


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:20 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My argument is based on the premise of author intent, in this case the intent of Lucas. The fact you don't care for author intent doesn't mean I'm wrong. It's also worth noting that we've conducted a poll on this in 2016 and a (slight) majority of the public sided with me on this.


Would love to see you make this poll again in the current climate.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:20 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Lmao. I just remembered. Mace admits to having no strength left to fend off Palpatine's lightning.

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade." - Revenge of the Sith.

F*ck off Ant.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:22 AM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
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Yeah, he's not expending any energy to keep up with Palpatine in a duel and block his lightning...


The game doesn't show that part, so he wasn't expending any energy as far as the game went.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:22 AM
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DarthAnt66
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Lmao. I just remembered. Mace admits to having no strength left to fend off Palpatine's lightning.

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade." - Revenge of the Sith.

F*ck off Ant.

You're... completely missing the point.

It's not that Mace didn't expend energy vs Sidious - he expended all of it.

But that's not important here.

This is within the context of the game where, like Zen said, there's no indication Mace is tired - no indication Mace even fought.

The intent of the fight is to show peak Mace vs peak Anakin, and given this entire argument is based on the author intent (of Lucas), expending energy or not is irrelevant.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 27th, 2017 at 04:27 AM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:24 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
The game doesn't show that part, so he wasn't expending any energy as far as the game went.


I'm just at a loss as to how you can think Mace's Force reserves wouldn't have been impacted at all in a high intensity duel with Sidious that lasted several minutes...


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:26 AM
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DarthAnt66
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm just at a loss as to how you can think Mace's Force reserves wouldn't have been impacted at all in a high intensity duel with Sidious that lasted several minutes...

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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:26 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66


The intent of the fight is to show peak Mace vs peak Anakin,


Oh, the author clarifies that that's their intent? Fair enough. Give me the quote where they say that.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:27 AM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm just at a loss as to how you can think Mace's Force reserves wouldn't have been impacted at all in a high intensity duel with Sidious that lasted several minutes...


Did I say that? Because I didn't, all I merely said was that Mace didn't appear to be exhausted before the fight within the game, only after. I didn't say Mace's reserves didn't take a hit, but it didn't appear to be enough to have him be exhausted before the fight. It might have drained him sure, but he's still shown as being very capable in fighting.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:28 AM
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DarthAnt66
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[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Mace's lightsaber vs Sidious' lightning never even happens in the ROTS game. They cut that out.

The scene, from the player's perspective, is a completely fresh Mace vs Anakin (the player).

The player has no reason to believe Mace is weakened, nor is there any indication Mace is hindered.

Thus, it follows the intent was to demonstrate a peak Mace vs a peak Anakin.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:29 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Did I say that? Because I didn't, all I merely said was that Mace didn't appear to be exhausted before the fight within the game, only after. I didn't say Mace's reserves didn't take a hit, but it didn't appear to be enough to have him be exhausted before the fight. It might have drained him sure, but he's still shown as being very capable in fighting.


Why does that matter? Dooku is literally running on fumes in his fight with Anakin but by using the Force to replenish himself he's able to appear as if he's in peak form.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:30 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Mace's lightsaber vs Sidious' lightning never even happens in the ROTS game. They cut that out.

The scene, from the player's perspective, is a completely fresh Mace vs Anakin (the player).

The player has no reason to believe Mace is weakened, nor is there any indication Mace is hindered.

Thus, it follows the intent was to demonstrate a peak Mace vs a peak Anakin.


Still waiting for those author quotes Ant.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:31 AM
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DarthAnt66
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why does that matter? Dooku is literally running on fumes in his fight with Anakin but by using the Force to replenish himself he's able to appear as if he's in peak form.


Eesh, that just killed your argument.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:31 AM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why does that matter? Dooku is literally running on fumes in his fight with Anakin but by using the Force to replenish himself he's able to appear as if he's in peak form.


That's all fine and dandy, I never was saying that Mace was in peak performance, but he wasn't in shit performance either until it was shown at the end.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:32 AM
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DarthAnt66
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Still waiting for those author quotes Ant.


There's really no need to act like that.

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Not that the above quote is what you want, since we both know you set an unreasonable demand, but it expresses my point. You're trying to view everything as a continuous storyline. That's not the way to approach it because the ROTS game (and novel) is different than the ROTS film. In the game, there's no indication Mace and Sidious even fought. In fact, they set it up to make it seem like Mace just strolled in and went to kill Sidious. Further, they removed the segment of Sidious attacking Mace with lightning and exhausting him. And most importantly, no where is it conveyed that Mace is not at his peak strength. You have to understand what we are looking for here is the intent behind the scene, and it's as clear as day that the intent is that Anakin is better than Mace, not that Anakin is better than a super weakened Mace since the game, which is where all of this is from, doesn't convey that. Since we are using intent and not a definitive storyline, the exhaustion argument is irrelevant.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:37 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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"However, only one death was in his plan, and this dumb-show was becoming tiresome. Not to mention tiring. The dark power that served him went only so far, and he was, after all, not a young man." - Revenge of the Sith.

"The Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger. [/b]Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.[/b]" - Revenge of the Sith.

"He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him-" - Revenge of the Sith.

"Dooku met theboy's charge easily. They stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see, but Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn; like the proverbial Corellian multipede,now that he had started thinking about what he was doing, he could no longer walk. Dooku allowed himself to relax; he felt that spirit of playfulness coming over him again as he and Skywalker spun 'round each other in their lethal dance. Whatever fun was to be had, he should enjoy while he could." - Revenge of the Sith.

Sorry Ant. As high as I know you hold your own opinion, the RotS novel still takes precedence.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:38 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There's really no need to act like that.

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Excuses


Still waiting for the quote saying what you claimed.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:39 AM
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