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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Mace and the Invisible Hand


Mace and the Invisible Hand
Started by: DarthAnt66

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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
Anakin > All.

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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 02:10 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This might be suicide going against you, as I'm just starting to get into the swing of things. But

Context is key, but if that's the case, Mace looks exhuasted at the end of the battle, and let's be fair, he did just fight Sheev, which in both Yoda's and Mace's case, the battle leaves them incredibly exhausted at the end. If we do use that cutscene as a way to wank, Skywalker, well honestly, it's going to seem more impressive for Mace, to have lasted as long as he did against Sheev, and then Skywalker, in fact it lends credence to the whole "Mace is actually = Sheev" shpiel.


The context is that the game gives no indication Mace is tired, weakened, or even had just fought Sidious.

From the perspective of the player in the game, no fight between Mace and Sidious even took place. The game never brings up the fight.

Thus, to assume the developers where snickering as they wrote the fight and remarked, "the player thinks he's beating Mace but it's actually a weakened Mace!" is silly.

If something as relevant as Mace being hindered to the point that Anakin therefore now wins was true, it's logical to assume that the game would (even remotely) convey that. It didn't.

That being said, Mace already beat Sidious, so I don't think his high-standing needs any more credence.


quote:
Also, Perhaps I missed it a couple pages ago, but if Cin's fight in the game is overruled/overwritten/retcon or what have you, by a higher form of canon, such as the examples you gave, then, it shouldn't it stand to reason that because there is no mention of the battle occurring whatsoever in the ROTS Novel(a higher form a canon than the game), it is overruled? After all, the battle between Skywalker and Mace is not, to my knowledge, echoed anywhere else in the EU, please correct me if i'm wrong. And, If memory serves me right, and I do believe you may have posted it, isn't there a link/source from the game/development team that directly states that the movie takes precedence over the game itself?


Addressed by Skillz.

quote:
Yeah if the game isn't even being accurate with power levels in fights that actually happened, I don't know why I shouldn't take it's portrayal of a fight that never happened in the actual continuity without a massive grain of salt.


Absolute stupidity for so many reasons.

The game and the novel were being worked on, separately, by two different authors, at the same time.

Further, as stated earlier, there is no indication Lucas ever made a definitive statement on the Drallig fight or Drallig's capabilities.

Thus, it was up to the creative liberty of Gillard, writing the game fight, and Stover, writing the novel fight, to portray Drallig as they wished.

It's not as if there was already definitive statement of Drallig's abilities and Gillard and his team were just ignoring it.

In the end, Stover's version, being of higher canonical authority, ended up trumping Gillard's and became the "true" version.

I can't fathom how one can hammer the game for not knowing something that had yet to be established yet (i.e. Stover's version). Worst yet, I can't fathom how one can use that as reasoning why the game is wrong on areas that had been established by Lucas and since Gillard is involved, would know said facts (such as the capabilities of Anakin and Mace).


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 27th, 2017 at 03:07 AM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:00 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

You realize that if we applied holistic intent the way you're applying it, it would be perfectly fair to argue that the feat you posted represents authorial intent regarding how powerful Windu is?

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:07 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

And how powerful would that be? erm

The game doesn't shed any information on Windu's abilities besides placing a cap on it.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:08 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

The hell?

Ant has long believed Windu is gr8, kek.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:08 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The hell?

Ant has long believed Windu is gr8, kek.

thumb up Is he arguing that I have to believe Mace can compete with Anakin?

No shit - Mace beat Sidious. smile


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:10 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

Yeah, I think that he thinks you still have Mace sub-Revan or some shit.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:11 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And how powerful would that be? erm

The game doesn't shed any information on Windu's abilities besides placing a cap on it.

I'm talking about the feat you posted at the start of this thread Ant. If it's fair game to use authorial intent from n-canon material, then what you posted is perfectly valid for use.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:11 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

There's no problem with Mace being able to perform such a feat, kek.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:13 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

That's different. We don't know why the feat was removed, but one of the most likely reasons is that Lucas decided Mace came off as too powerful (within the context of the films).

If you can get me a confirmation Lucas removed it for another reason, such as say to show Anakin's piloting skills, then sure, I'll accept it.

That being said, Mace can obviously replicate the feat in Legends, based on handling Sidious' telekinesis and such.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:14 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

If you can get me a confirmation Lucas removed it for another reason, such as say to show Anakin's piloting skills, then sure, I'll accept it.

Well, the novel, which Lucas line edited, and the movie both make a point of emphasizing Anakin's piloting skills, so I'd imagine that would be the reason here.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:19 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Sure, but Mace stopping Anakin would be at the point Anakin is just skidding down along the run-away. At that point his grand accomplishment would be over. Mace doing it would just be to stop him rather than have Anakin crash into a tower and, some would argue, dampen the greatness of the feat.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:21 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sure, but Mace stopping Anakin would be at the point Anakin is just skidding down along the run-away. At that point his grand accomplishment would be over. Mace doing it would just be to stop him rather than have Anakin crash into a tower and, some would argue, dampen the greatness of the feat.

I thought the feat was that he rotated the ship back in place while it was skidding?
Edit: Relooked at the scans, so yea, he just stops the ship.

Sure, it's not as impressive as stopping it just as it's about to land, but it's still impressive.

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Sep 27th, 2017 at 03:26 AM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:23 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

My take was that the ship is skidding along the run-way and Mace extends his arms and the ship eventually slides to a stop. Looking back, the ship did rotate, but I don't think that was his doing - or at least not intentional.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:26 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My take was that the ship is skidding along the run-way and Mace extends his arms and the ship eventually slides to a stop. Looking back, the ship did rotate, but I don't think that was his doing - or at least not intentional.

the ship doesn't rotate.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:30 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

I don't think there's an exit at the front of the ship. It seems to rotate to the side since when Anakin and co. get out they are facing Mace.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:36 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't think there's an exit at the front of the ship. It seems to rotate to the side since when Anakin and co. get out they are facing Mace.

That's the shuttle they travel on later, not the big ship they crash on. Check the scan right before we see the three exit, the ship looks exactly like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECriVkNsSA

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 03:56 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Apparently, as per the ROTS novel, that's an escape pod at the landing strip.

So perhaps it didn't rotate - not that it matter anyway.

Well, not that this entire conversation mattered anyway. *shrugs*


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:06 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The context is that the game gives no indication Mace - had just fought Sidious.


That's retarded. It doesn't matter whether or not he looked tired after fighting Sidious. He's going to be after barely fending off an attack that he himself said he couldn't hold off much longer.


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Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Sep 27th, 2017 at 04:10 AM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:06 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

So you're saying the developers wrote the fight with the secret intent of Mace being exhausted but decided to keep it to themselves?

"Oh, we're not going to mention or show that Mace is tired, nor are we even going to mention he was just in a fight, but secretly he was!"

erm

Your argument doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:08 AM
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