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Brutal Murder of Daniel Shaver
Started by: lazybones

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Nephthys
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While I havn't watched the video because I hear its especially disturbing my understanding is that he could just handcuff the guy. The call was over a report the guy was pointing a rifle out of the window (it was a pellet gun) and he clearly doesn't have a rifle on him. The officer is in no danger. I also understand there were multiple officers there. You can easily cuff the guy while covered by another officer.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 08:28 PM
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BackFire
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Yep. Have the guy lay on the ground and just walk up and cuff him. Instead of playing a demented version of Simon says with contradictory demands that no person would have been able to follow adequately while having a screaming lunatic with a gun yelling that you'll die if you mess up.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 08:33 PM
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lazybones
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You guys know he's no longer a cop, right?



Can anyone in this thread suggest an alternative to how this cop should have handled this situation? Be specific. Don't give general or vague answers. Be specific within the context of this situation.

No, this is not me trying to do a "gotcha" game. I won't debate anyone's answers. I just want to know some ideas on how this situation could have been handled better.
Right, because he was fired by the police department after this ordeal. If his actions and approach were justified, he would have stayed on.

De-escalation was the key here. Instead of yelling, intimidation and threats, the cop should have tried to calm the suspect down, which would have made compliance easier. Cuffing the suspect whilst he was on the ground would have been preferable to having him crawl over (which contradicted the cop's previous demands to keep hands in the air and legs crossed, likely creating confusion for the severely drunk suspect). I also believe that this particular cop got in trouble for excessive force before, and therefore he should never have been put into this situation. Basic empathy and common sense would have also helped. A sobbing drunk man begging for mercy (a fact that the cop omitted from his testimonies) is not realistically going to be able to pull out a gun and shoot the cop whilst three other police were aiming guns at the man. The guy was obviously scared for his life and couldn't think straight, and had none of the markings of a criminal.

Really, the cop's own words tell us the problem:

" I'm not here to be tactical and diplomatic with you, you listen and you obey"

Absolutely the wrong approach. A cop must be tactical to assess the actual danger, and must be diplomatic in order to prevent the situation escalating. Not being tactical is even worse than not being diplomatic, though, as it's basically the cop conceding that he's following a " shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.This is bound to end in bloodshed, and shows that the police don't have any deterrent to go for the kill. There is a time and place for police to react with force, but this wasn't it. Cop was clearly on a power trip.

Reminds me of this headline:

" No Way To Prevent This, Says Only Country Where This Happens Regularly"

Last edited by lazybones on Dec 9th, 2017 at 08:58 PM

Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 08:55 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You guys know he's no longer a cop, right?



Can anyone in this thread suggest an alternative to how this cop should have handled this situation? Be specific. Don't give general or vague answers. Be specific within the context of this situation.

No, this is not me trying to do a "gotcha" game. I won't debate anyone's answers. I just want to know some ideas on how this situation could have been handled better.


I think he should have worded his warnings differently. Told him to lay down flat on the ground and not move. Then someone should have come and patted him down to see if he had any weapons. Then they should of had him move.

Why make him crawl like that?


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 09:17 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
While I havn't watched the video because I hear its especially disturbing my understanding is that he could just handcuff the guy. The call was over a report the guy was pointing a rifle out of the window (it was a pellet gun) and he clearly doesn't have a rifle on him. The officer is in no danger. I also understand there were multiple officers there. You can easily cuff the guy while covered by another officer.



This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm not even close to an expert but it seems very obvious, because there were multiple police on site with sights on him (did not plan that), it seems rather obvious that this was an easy situation to handle. Then pat him down. Then question him. Then cite him if he broke a city ordinance and get on with the night and to the next call.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 09:33 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You guys know he's no longer a cop, right?



Can anyone in this thread suggest an alternative to how this cop should have handled this situation? Be specific. Don't give general or vague answers. Be specific within the context of this situation.

No, this is not me trying to do a "gotcha" game. I won't debate anyone's answers. I just want to know some ideas on how this situation could have been handled better.


Nade the ****.

Or ****ing noob tube him right out that window.

Or blow up the entire hotel.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 09:41 PM
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jaden101
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Actually forget

Take off....nuke the site from orbit...its the only way to be sure.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 09:42 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Actually forget

Take off....nuke the site from orbit...its the only way to be sure.


Sometimes we've had to bomb innocents.

Dresden...


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 10:28 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Sometimes we've had to bomb innocents.

Dresden...


Can't say I remember that from Aliens


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 10:36 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Can't say I remember that from Aliens


It's a deleted scene....wink

They f*cking killed Newt though in the next film.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2017 10:41 PM
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Surtur
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Anyways, you would think this would be a bigger deal and getting more attention.

Does anyone care to share a thought as to why it might not be?


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Old Post Dec 10th, 2017 04:43 PM
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Rick Deckard
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This is sickening. What a ****ing Nazi & murderer.

And, it's just further proof (as if we needed any more) that - yes - even Caucasians get unjustly murdered by those in authority. It's not just people of color that this happens to.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 02:05 AM
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Adam Grimes
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You guys know he's no longer a cop, right?



Can anyone in this thread suggest an alternative to how this cop should have handled this situation? Be specific. Don't give general or vague answers. Be specific within the context of this situation.

No, this is not me trying to do a "gotcha" game. I won't debate anyone's answers. I just want to know some ideas on how this situation could have been handled better.
Try to deescalate the situation, make the suspect feel safe and trusted. Then pull the gun and shoot him in the ****ing head.


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Not today, not tomorrow...

Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 02:10 AM
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Silent Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
You guys know he's no longer a cop, right?



Can anyone in this thread suggest an alternative to how this cop should have handled this situation? Be specific. Don't give general or vague answers. Be specific within the context of this situation.

No, this is not me trying to do a "gotcha" game. I won't debate anyone's answers. I just want to know some ideas on how this situation could have been handled better.


Shoot him in the nuts with a bean bag round smile


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posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 02:17 AM
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Adam_PoE
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rick Deckard
It's not just people of color that this happens to.


Nobody said it was. The issue, aside from that it happens at all, is that it disproportionately happens to people of color. Tellingly, it took a high-profile instance of this happening to a white person for many people here to care.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 02:21 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nobody said it was. The issue, aside from that it happens at all, is that it disproportionately happens to people of color. Tellingly, it took a high-profile instance of this happening to a white person for many people here to care.


Do you think white people should have taken to the streets and pillaged and vandalized vigorously protested to demonstrate that they will not stand for this blatant abuse of authority?


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 06:10 AM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nobody said it was. The issue, aside from that it happens at all, is that it disproportionately happens to people of color. Tellingly, it took a high-profile instance of this happening to a white person for many people here to care.


That's cos white people are better and more important than black people. 👍


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 11:01 AM
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