The f*ck is up with all this "potential" nonsense? There's way too much stock put into subjective tripe like that.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Yeah, it's legit.
I'm aware that some people are all for the
{Skills > Potential}
Which is true in most scenarios, but when we get to people like Anakin and Luke ... it's sorta different. They're that strong in the force essentially. Plagueis was amazed that Palpatine was born of flesh and blood, yet Anakin [and Luke to an extent] was perhaps more than double as strong as Sidious in the force. That means that any extension of raw power could overpower most skilled combatants. Lucas hints that Anakin may have/could have killed the emperor if he had killed Obi on Mustafar, signalling his innate raw power, regardless of Sidious' unparalleled mastery.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
For what it's worth, and it's not much, the Lego Star Wars books being published by Disney (and works with the Story Group) published a book with a list of the top 4 most powerful Force-users (potential wise). It has Anakin as 1, Yoda and Sidious tied for 2 and 3, then Luke at 4, suggesting significant dilution. Odd list.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Why the **** is Luke number 4.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
But why bother caring about potential. It doesn't mean anything. Only what the characters actually do and are capable of doing matters. Not what they might be capable of doing at some unspecified point in the future given the right unspecified conditioning. If you're trying to rank fictional people in their ability to defeat other fictional characters, Yu Gi Oh style, then you compare demonstrated talents, not "what if it gets established later" talents. That's all this "potential" stuff is.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Lucas canon overrides it though? Lucas says that Luke could be double the emperor in power. It therefore makes no sense to contradict his word... ****ing Disney.
I guess the new logic is that Anakin's potential got halved when he had children, which makes it about the same as the Emperor/Yoda for Luke.
This in essence only makes Anakin stand out more as a bullshit force user.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Like I said, it only matters for two people: Anakin and Luke, because of their innate connection to the force that exceeds even Palpatine's connection.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
But when you don't have enough information on what they do and are capable of doing, you have to make do with the data points you have. That's why professional scouts will try to determine a college athlete's potential/ceiling even though they haven't done anything in the pros yet. In this case, it's really vague how Kylo measures up to more established characters from earlier eras, but we can try to interpolate through potential + how much of it we think he's realized because we do have an idea of how their potentials match up.
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Like... what the f*ck does this even... sounds like a teenager wrote...
Ugh.
But those athletes still have demonstrated skills on which to base a prediction on, and then to gamble with.
F*ckin space wizards from the imagination have demonstrated abilities too. So judge them on that. Not this convoluted "watering down of potential" shit because Anakin/2=Leia/Han=Rey equivalence when measured against Ben... whatever.
It'd be dumb to look at the NFL's best players, then say that their children's football talents are proportionate to how many siblings each child has, or how many generations removed they are from said NFL star. That would be... f*cking retarded. But given all the concussions that actually just might be true.
And on top of that: why CARE about potential. It's meaningless.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on Dec 24th, 2017 at 01:25 AM
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Nice, cherry pick that line and ignore my actual argument. Let me restate again, Raw power matters for only two people that we know of so far: Luke and Anakin.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Lol I'm not actually arguing with you. I'm dismissing the topic of the "argument" entirely.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I'm not making up a new concept here. Guessing a variable from statistical proxies or correlates is employed regularly both directly and indirectly, like the machine learning algorithms you were using every time you googled something today. Potential and training time correlate with power, so we can try to guess from them. Like we do this all the time in real life.
It would be absolutely better to have a good set of quantifiable feats but we don't have that. Now if there were some risk to making bad guesses we might just throw our hands up and say we don't know, but we're talking about Star Wars here on KMC forums, so there really isn't.
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Even Lucas talks about Anakin and wanks his force potential, so you just personally do not like it, that does not mean it cannot be used in argument/discussion as fact and viable source material. Don't like it ? Your choice.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Fair enough, no conclusions here mean anything to anyone of worth. Or even stay concluded for long.
You guys argue over who's more powerful or who can defeat who based on what a character IS, not what a character COULD be. Potential realized is just that character now, present-tense (IS). Potential unfulfilled is what that character might become in later material, or never became because they died or something (COULD). You don't determine if Whie Malreaux can beat Kylo Ren at Rocket League NOW by mentioning that Kylo's father had the potential to be the top-ranked player if only he hadn't visited Lava World with a chip on his shoulder. I mean sure, Kylo inherited his father's dextrous fingers and quick reflexes... but Whie's the current reigning champion, and Kylo's barely played the game. He COULD become better than Whie in a later novel, but NOW... not really.
...
Is what I'm getting at... I think...
I like you. You care about what George Lucas has to say. That's cute
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I think you're missing the point here. It's the immense force potential of a Skywalker that let's them get away with stuff. Force potential isn't just what the COULD be, it's also their raw connection. It means they can do stuff with minimal/no training.
Now, you're absolutely right. What you ARE, and what you COULD BE is entirely different. It gets just a little shaky for the 0.01% of people [Anakin/Luke] who have an unnatural connection to the force. Jedi Masters would be amazed beyond belief watching the Throne Room duel in Episode 6. Luke picked up and re-demonstrated an even better performance of Form V than Vader's own. Why could he learn so quickly without nearly as much training as Vader? His force potential/connection. Again, Lucas tells us that had Vader succeeded in killing Obi-Wan, he could have challenged the emperor, despite the emperor's vastly superior skill and mastery of the force - only because that raw power and command [innate] was that strong.
It only really applies to the Skywalkers, not really anyone else.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
@Lucien my whole point is that the potential is useful to predict current ability, not that it's intrinsically important. It's a statistical correlate that you can use to guess at a fuzzy variable (current ability for ST characters who don't have many feats). We use this in formal systems like machine learning all the time, and informally when you make guesses based on intuitions and other random stuff. You might remember stuff like this from stat class back when you had black/blond/whatever hair.
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Dec 24th, 2017 01:06 AM
