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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » On The Jedi Exile; Malachor, Dromund Kaas, and Scaling Chains.


On The Jedi Exile; Malachor, Dromund Kaas, and Scaling Chains.
Started by: Selenial

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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

On The Jedi Exile; Malachor, Dromund Kaas, and Scaling Chains.

Recent arguments have been made on this forum perforated with logical fallacies and incomplete knowledge, focussed on how the Jedi Exile and KotOR II Era characters scale below Darth Nyriss. Many often claim that the location was negligible, that plenty of planets have generic ‘dark side is strong here’ accolades and use that to dismiss the Exile’s poor performance against Nyriss. This is simply untrue, proven in two primary sources in the form of ‘Star Wars the Old Republic: Revan’ and ‘Fate of the Jedi: Ascension’. This thread will seek not to ‘hype’ the Exile, but compile the complete picture of her Kaas City feat and show the significant difference between that and her feat on Malachor V.

To start with, one must acknowledge the reason the Exile was capable of holding off the effects of the Malachor V Nexus, and how she was capable of competing with hordes of Sith.

The Jedi Council elaborate on the Exile’s ability to draw on the power of the force:

quote:
“Vrook: "Yes.. you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their wills and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives.”


quote:
Zez-Kai Ell: "He's right. It's... all the deaths you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to grow more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"


The Exile, on Malachor V was within a short distance of her companions and could draw upon their connection to the force for strength. On top of this, she was able to feed on the Force Energy of the Assassins she killed to replenish her strength. Not only this, but the Exile is also capable of drawing upon the strength of other force sensitives around her:

quote:
“I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near. Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you.”


Over the course of the game the Exile attempts to heal her wound, and comes close. On Telos when encountering the Ithorian herd, she managed to heal a portion of her wound:

quote:
"Forgive me, Chodo, but the human - I could feel her suffering. I did not feel it until she stood before us, but then it filled my senses. Have you ever felt such an intensity before?"

"Only once before. The day I came to Telos and strode upon its ashen surface. It is a planet's worth of pain."
"I do not know how she endures."
"It is because she has no choice. Perhaps in helping to heal a planet, it will help her become whole again.


The Essential Guide to Characters seems to support the notion her wound fully healed after the game, saying she had finished her training (after already having mastered all seven forms of Lightsaber Combat and many esoteric aspects of the force):

quote:
Taking the dead woman's words at face value, the Exile returned to Dantooine to complete her training as a Jedi, then disappeared into the Unknown Regions and was never seen again.


This couples with quotes from the Revan Novel that - when compared with quotes from KotOR II like the one above- indicate the Exile was no longer a wound in the force.

(NOTE: Before continuing, note that the Jedi Exile’s wound draining likely was enough to mitigate the Malachor Nexus, given how she describes it in the Revan Novel, it was not amping her beyond her normal means. This is evidenced by Sion suggesting later in the timeline she would wield even more power)

With this established, Dromund Kaas’ negative influence must be discussed. Luke Skywalker, Ben Skywalker, Jaina Solo and Vestara all feel the negative influence of the Dromund Kaas nexus, and the nexus at the Dark Temple. Many people have questioned whether this nexus is applicable to the Nyriss/Emperor fight, and I will elaborate later as to why this is entirely unquestionable.

Luke, Ben and co sense the growing Nexus and feel its power from kilometers away:

quote:
‘“Ben extended himself in the Force, both opening himself to the vile sensation of the dark side and utilizing his senses—even smell, temporarily at least—to gather what information he could.
“Other than the obvious, which is a metric ton of dark- side energy, I can’t sense anything,” Jaina said.“‘


quote:
‘... a way to keep their spirits up and prevent the ubiquitous, lurking presence of the dark side from unsettling them completely. [...] “We’re about two kilometers away,” Luke said. “I’m sure we’re all feeling it. It’s just going to get more intense.’


In this visit to the Dark Temple, the group were ambushed by a group of Sith Sabers. They were ambushed because the Temple’s power drowned out other Force sensitives. Luke notes that Khai would send the sabers here because of the power of the Nexus, predicting it could make normal Sith a match for Luke, Jaina and Ben:

quote:
‘“They probably assumed we’d do exactly what we have been doing— investigating planets traditionally associated with Sith history. Khai probably chose this place because of the nexus. They could send a smaller team and still be stronger.”’


During the combat, Ben struggled to draw on the force, and Luke Skywalker - one of the most powerful Jedi in history - found his reflexes dulled and himself slowed.

quote:
‘“Ben drew more and more heavily on the Force—it was difficult here, so close to a dark-side nexus, and it took more out of him. “‘

‘“The Sith attacking them had two advantages [...] The Second was that they were being reinforced by the emanations of the dark-side nexus within the temple. It surged forth like psychic sewage, clogging the Jedi’s reflexes as it fueled their enemies.”’


Both Ben Skywalker and Luke were injured by the sabers they fought. Neither managed to overpower their foes with the Force, and had to work hard to win their fights with the blade.

quote:
‘“You okay?” Luke asked. “Yeah,” Ben said. “A burn on the shoulder, but should be alright. You?” “We’ll need the Bacta salve, but otherwise fine”.’


If the Nexus of Dromund Kaas was enough to dull the senses of Luke, and allow Sith Sabers (categorically inferior to the Assassins Surik faced on Malachor) to tag Ben and himself, there is no doubt the effect it would have on the Exile is huge.

The Revan novel and SWTOR prove that this nexus is one which the Exile would have been dealing with in her duel against Nyriss in Kaas City.

Scourge muses at the beginning of the novel:

quote:
Yet in all his years of training at the Sith Academy on Kaas City’s borders, he had never been granted the privilege [to enter the Citadel]. The dark side power emanating from within the building was undeniable; he had felt the raw, crackling energy every day during his years as an acolyte. He had drawn on it, focusing his mind and spirit to channel the power through his own body to sustain him during the brutal training sessions.


Now, Scourge remarks that he can draw on the strength of the Citadel from the edges of the City. Nyriss’ compound is also on the western edge of the city, within ‘drawing’ distance of the Citadel, and also significantly closer to the Dark Temple than the Citadel’ as evidenced by the introductory cinematic to the imperial Dromund Kaas stronghold in SWTOR.
https://youtu.be/FJAXfk6wGQE?t=4

Note as well that we know this is the west of the City, as the City lies to the east of the Dark Temple according to the maps:
https://imgur.com/q9n0dk0

What is important to notice as well is that the Sith Sabers were not planning to ambush Luke and the Jedi at the Dark Temple, they simply chose the planet. This is evidenced by Luke’s quote, and the fact that the Sith had to approach the Jedi from afar:

quote:
‘And...some Dark Force manifestations, but not close. Not yet, anyway’


In essence; Dromund Kaas hindered Luke Skywalker and Ben Skywalker to the point where both could be injured by Sith Sabers that Luke himself considered fodder, poorly skilled and easy to exploit. It demonstrably dulled the senses of the most powerful Jedi in history and stopped Ben from calling upon the Force at full power. It thus dulled all three aspects of a Jedi’s force usage, Control, Sense and Alter. Furthermore the weak Sith that Luke was facing were empowered in every way. If weaker Sith with abysmal skills were amplified so strongly by this Nexus, a Sith Lord in her prime - one of the strongest Sith at a relative height of the Sith Empire’s power - would have been amplified astronomically as well. That the Exile even contended with Nyriss in this state is an immense feat, and that a Sith such as Scourge would consider her a challenge he is not sure he could beat also is. What’s more, resisting the will of the emperor that broke Jedi before her with ease and blitzing Imperial Guard solidifies her Dromund Kaas feats as sufficiently impressive, not lacklustre.


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 06:35 PM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

For what it’s worth, there are two things the Exile does scale from that many aren’t aware of. For one, Canderous states that the Exile has proven that KotOR Revan was not a singular Jedi, implying parity with him in combat, before she experiences growth in the end game. This in my view places her above Kotor Revan (though firmly and substantially below the unavoidably more powerful Revan Reborn). Adding to this, Bastila on the Star Forge declares herself to be below the Jedi Council members such as Master Vrook, who are in turn surpassed by the Exile’s companions, who were dominated by Traya who in turn is surpassed by the Exile. Thus the Exile scales leagues above a Jedi described as having ‘immense power’, who could hold her own against Revan, Juhani and Jolee and even knock them back telekinetically, and who gave Revan a ‘frantic’ fight on the Star Forge. Go figure, hey? :>


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 06:36 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

:no1:


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 07:05 PM
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HP Legend
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Yavin IV.


 

10/10 thread.

One problem.

It means I can't half ass my CaV and use Nyriss scaling.

sad


__________________

"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 07:08 PM
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BestDebaterEver
Head of Debate Club

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Not An Argument


 

so bazigally

KOTOR II Exile w/ Wound > Revan Meetra w/out Wound > Revan Meetra w/out Wound on Kaas >/= Kaas Scourge << Kaas Nyriss

And the particular nexus Meetra was on was even more potent than the one that let Sith Sabers lay a glove on GM Luke Skywalker.

What now virgins?

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 07:44 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

There’s a lot here I agree with, a lot I don’t. I might respond later giving my thoughts.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 08:20 PM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

If by a lot you don’t agree with you mean the Revan scaling, that’s fine and I really want someone to challenge me on it so we can settle it. I’m not trying to wank Surik per se I’m just not convinced there’s an alternative perspective.

That however isn’t really a conversation to have here, I’d be down for a new thread though. Out of curiosity, thoughts on the rest of it? smile


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 08:31 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
KOTOR II Exile w/ Wound > Revan Meetra w/out Wound

Nothing Selenial says in this thread says that, and the fact the Exile's wound is partially healed mid-way through KOTOR 2 indicates otherwise.

As for Meetra on Dromund Kaas, the question is if the nexus of Kaas is more potent than the nexus of Malachor V.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 08:53 PM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jaggarath
Nothing Selenial says in this thread says that, and the fact the Exile's wound is partially healed mid-way through KOTOR 2 indicates otherwise.


True, and kinda true.

quote:
As for Meetra on Dromund Kaas, the question is if the nexus of Kaas is more potent than the nexus of Malachor V.


Not really, given the wound.


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 08:54 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

You should write a blog commenting on how the wound offsets the nexus of Malachor then.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 08:56 PM
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Ursumeles
Traitor

Registered: Sep 2016
Location: KMC


 

Pretty great thread. thumb up
Am interested to see if this leads to a debate with Ant tbh.


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Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 09:47 PM
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Intr3pId
Demon

Registered: Dec 2018
Location: Devil's mansion


 


__________________
yes

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 09:54 PM
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HP Legend
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Yavin IV.


 

@Sel:

quote:
focussed on how the Jedi Exile and KotOR II Era characters scale below Darth Nyriss


Focused*


__________________

"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "

Old Post Dec 27th, 2018 11:57 PM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by HP Legend
@Sel:



Focused*


I’m British you ****.


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 12:11 AM
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HP Legend
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Yavin IV.


 

You know I'm British as well right?


__________________

"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 12:14 AM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by HP Legend
You know I'm British as well right?




[SPOILER - highlight to read]: dont derail my thread with correcting it to American spellings then :>


__________________

"i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 01:10 AM
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HP Legend
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Yavin IV.


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Selenial


[SPOILER - highlight to read]: dont derail my thread with correcting it to American spellings then :>


Sorry for derailing your thread. Just checked and apparently either is correct.


__________________

"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 01:21 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Between KotOR 2 and Revan, she has years of growth after rebuilding the Jedi Order. People always forget that.


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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 05:42 AM
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Meatpants
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2018
Location: Australia


 

Good points. Interested to see what issues Ant will take up, and if they can be resolved.

Last edited by Meatpants on Dec 28th, 2018 at 06:56 AM

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 06:49 AM
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gold slorg
Yun-Yuuzhan

Registered: Sep 2018
Location: Yuuzhan'tar


 

luv u

Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 03:48 AM
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