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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Yoda's wisdom thoroughly debunked


Yoda's wisdom thoroughly debunked
Started by: S_W_LeGenD

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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: South Asia


 

Yoda's wisdom thoroughly debunked

LINK: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-yo...ng-fans-ignore/

Connect following dots.

14 HE IGNORES ANAKIN'S TRAUMA
13 HE MINDLESSLY FOLLOWS THE JEDI CODE
12 HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY-- OR HE IGNORES IT
11 HE ASSIGNS ANAKIN TO PROTECT PADMÉ
10 HE SENSES ANAKIN'S PAIN, AND DOESN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT
7 HE DOESN'T REALIZE ANAKIN'S AT BREAKING POINT
4 HE ASSIGNS AHSOKA TO ANAKIN

with:

"Perhaps. But in any case this is why the Jedi Order has descended into decadence and is dragging the Republic down with it. Because the Jedi have lost the allegiance of the Force. Yes, their ability to draw energy from the Force continues, but their ability to use the Force has diminished. Each of their actions engenders an opposite, often unrecognized consequence that elevates those attuned to the dark side; that buoys the efforts of the Sith and increases our power. Yet our use of that power requires delicacy. We must be alert to moments when the light side falters and openings are created. Then, and only then—when all the conditions have been met—can we act without fear of meeting resistance or repercussion." - Darth Plagueis

Yoda's failure to address Anakin Skywalker's personal issues contributed to the fall of the latter. Palpatine was a keen observer and capitalized on Yoda's stupidity to his advantage.

Not just Anakin but scores of other Jedi became disillusioned over time because the Jedi Order:

But while the Republic seemed strong, its institutions had begun to rot. Greedy corporations sought profits above all else and a corrupt Senate did nothing to stop them, until the corporations reduced many planets to raw materials for factories and entire species became subjects for exploitation. Individual Jedi continued to defend the Republic’s citizens and obey the will of the Force, but the Jedi Order to which they answered grew increasingly out of touch. And a new Sith mastermind, Darth Sidious, at last saw a way to restore Sith domination over the galaxy and its inhabitants, and quietly worked to set in motion the revenge of the Sith … - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 02:16 PM
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ares834
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Congratulations. You realized something that everyone who had watched the prequels has known for years.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 08:57 PM
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Jaggarath
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Lucas explained Yoda becomes wise because on his failures/hubris in the PT.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 09:08 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
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So basically blaming Anakins fall on Yoda.

Okay... But lets not forget Yoda did rule against training him until Kenobi rebelled against that ruling.

Palpatine manipulates everyone, and yeah the Jedi as a whole were on the wrong track in many ways (which Yoda and Ben learned later).

But the Less Wise Council Jedi would be the ones who voted to kick Ahsoka out IMO. The same ones who refused to believe the Sith were back or that Count Dooku could have turned evil.

Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 09:33 PM
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Zenwolf
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A few of these are dumb, some are sound though but nothing new really.


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Last edited by Zenwolf on Jan 29th, 2019 at 10:35 PM

Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 10:32 PM
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Trocity
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Crap thread.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2019 10:46 PM
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Geistalt
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#SidiousWasRight


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2019 08:08 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jaggarath
Lucas explained Yoda becomes wise because on his failures/hubris in the PT.
And yet even in the OT he's not wise.

Remember, literally up until the point of his death he was demanding that Luke kill Vader. Yet in the end we see that Luke killing Vader would have been the trap that led him to the dark side.

Yoda was basically always a retard.


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2019 08:35 PM
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Geistalt
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^


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2019 08:41 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tzeentch
And yet even in the OT he's not wise.

Remember, literally up until the point of his death he was demanding that Luke kill Vader.



He said he needs to confront Vader one more time to become a Jedi. That was basically his Jedi trial.

He never said kill, and made it clear in ESB that a Jedi only uses the Force for Knowledge and Defence.

Old Post Feb 2nd, 2019 09:29 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Or the grand wisdom of the Council during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when pondering Dooku's words.

Obi-wan: "Should we look into what Dooku said about the Dark Lord controlling the Senate."

Yoda: "No! Lying Dooku is! Look into this deeper, we should not."

Outcome: Sidious ends up gathering a **** ton of political power, and the Great Jedi Purge happens.



Or the grand wisdom of the Council during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when trying to capture Darth Maul.

Windu: "If Darth Maul knows the identity of the Dark Lord, then his capture is far too important to leave to Obi-wan alone. We should send somebody with him."

Yoda: "No! Select the best fit Jedi to accompany him we will not. Sense I do that he will get help from some random person. Yes, best that is for the Galaxy."

...

Obi-wan: "I think we're outmatched."

Outcome: Obi-wan gets captured, beat the **** up, and fails to capture Darth Maul and learn the identity of the Dark Lord.



Or the grand wisdom of the Council during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when deciding to stop trying to capture Darth Maul.

Palpatine: "Stop searching for Maul. The war is far more important. We should just let him have free realm in the underworld. Come on guys!"

Yoda: "Makes sense that does. Have any useful information relating to the identity of the Dark Lord, he must not. No extremely valuable information by capturing him, will we gain."

Obi-wan: "Leaving Darth Maul to gain power through the underworld is a stupid idea."

Yoda: "Clouded by this your mind is."

Outcome: Darth Maul with his free reign takes control of Mandalore and about two-thousand other systems, the Jedi fail to learn the identity of the Dark Lord, and the Great Jedi Purge happens.


Or the grand wisdom of the Council during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when handling the inhibitor chip crisis.

Palpatine: "I know you wanted to study the chips yourselves, but we looked into it. There was a parasite that caused their chips to malfunction, and that's why Tup developed a compulsion to kill Jedi, and why Fives thought I was planning on killing all the Jedi for some reason. There is no need to look further into this is there?"

Yoda: "No, need to look into this more, we do not."

Outcome: The inhibitor chips stay in, the Jedi don't find out about the plot against them, and the Great Jedi Purge happens.


Or the grand wisdom of the Council during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when realizing that the Sith were the ones who gave them their army which they depended upon and trusted.

Obi-wan: "Dooku is Tyranus."

Windu: "This is disturbing."

Yoda: "Make a big deal out of or look deeper into this, we should not."

Outcome: The Jedi fail to discover the Sith plot, they continue to place their trust in the clones, and the Great Jedi Purge happens.


Or the grand wisdom of the Jedi Grand Master during "the Golden age" of the Jedi when finding out that the Jedi are all going to die.

Windu: "What did you find out."

Yoda: "Not tell you I will that you are going to die. Make up some bullshit about us winning this war and all wars, I will."

Outcome: Yoda fails to warn his order of their impending demise, and the Great Jedi Purge happens.



I mean honestly, it's no wonder that an Order of ten thousand Jedi was wiped out by the scheming and machinations of only about thirty Sith.


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Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 12:24 AM
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Geistalt
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#EmperordmbWasRight


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Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 12:43 AM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
He said he needs to confront Vader one more time to become a Jedi. That was basically his Jedi trial.

He never said kill, and made it clear in ESB that a Jedi only uses the Force for Knowledge and Defence.


Ben said Luke needed to kill Vader in RotJ. So unless these two Jedi who were working together had completely different plans, then Yoda also intended for Luke to kill Vader.

Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 12:54 AM
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LordOfTheLight
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb


This entire rant assumes that the Jedi took the threat of Sidious and the Sith seriously in the manner it should have been taken which they did not and logically speaking, could not have done.

You as the movie goer have an outside knowledge and the benefit of hindsight in that you can see the fault line or the shatterpoint of what actually went wrong and the one single variable which the whole thing depended on. The Banite grand plan to take over the galaxy in the story.

The Jedi had no knowledge of this plan, and considering how the Sith of old that the Jedi fought behaved, the Jedi expected the new ones to behave in the exact same manner and this is what went wrong. They also did not have the help of the force to actually give them insight into what might be going on behind the scenes and what's more, Sidious never gave them a chance to actually think that deeply about it either in the story. You tell me, you are placed as the leader of the UN peacekeeping armies when the world has collapsed into civil war and you have to act accordingly. Will you fight battles and wars or coordinate and command those that do, or will you try and investigate conspiracy theories about the president of the US being a secret member of Illuminati and you do not even know what the goal of Illuminati is actually?

Quite simply put, Yoda didn't want Kenobi to get involved with Maul when there are scores of outer rim worlds that need to be saved from the separatists and he is their best general. He didn't think that the identity of Sidious was that important as opposed to the war that was hanging over all of them constantly and that he must constantly monitor update and command the war and fight in it too.

They did start taking the threat of Sidious seriously towards the end when they began to get a whiff of perspectives they couldn't have gotten before and by some sensibility from Mace and Obi Wan you get the idea that they had begun catching on. But by that time, it was way too late.

Not saying all the decisions they made were correct, or they couldn't act more smartly, but the benefit of hindsight is actually a massive help for the movie fan or novel reader and now you factor in that the dark side had completely clouded their minds both by Sidious and by the war that was darkening the force. Simply put, by the time they took Sidious and the Sith seriously and understood the grand plan and realized it proved contrary to everything they had assumed about the Sith and their style of fighting and their behaviour, it became too late for them to correct the situation.

Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 11:01 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Ben said Luke needed to kill Vader in RotJ. So unless these two Jedi who were working together had completely different plans, then Yoda also intended for Luke to kill Vader.



Thats an assumption though. And given this thread is specifically blaming Yoda for everything, I think thats a correction worth pointing out.

Besides Yoda was specifically talking about how Luke will become a Jedi, which I doubt had anything to do with killing.

Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 11:36 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb



Yoda agreed to keep a closer eye on the Senate. So he didnt completely ignore Dooku. Nor did he just blindly take a Siths word at face value.

Old Post Feb 3rd, 2019 11:38 AM
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relentless1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
This entire rant assumes that the Jedi took the threat of Sidious and the Sith seriously in the manner it should have been taken which they did not and logically speaking, could not have done.

You as the movie goer have an outside knowledge and the benefit of hindsight in that you can see the fault line or the shatterpoint of what actually went wrong and the one single variable which the whole thing depended on. The Banite grand plan to take over the galaxy in the story.

The Jedi had no knowledge of this plan, and considering how the Sith of old that the Jedi fought behaved, the Jedi expected the new ones to behave in the exact same manner and this is what went wrong. They also did not have the help of the force to actually give them insight into what might be going on behind the scenes and what's more, Sidious never gave them a chance to actually think that deeply about it either in the story. You tell me, you are placed as the leader of the UN peacekeeping armies when the world has collapsed into civil war and you have to act accordingly. Will you fight battles and wars or coordinate and command those that do, or will you try and investigate conspiracy theories about the president of the US being a secret member of Illuminati and you do not even know what the goal of Illuminati is actually?

Quite simply put, Yoda didn't want Kenobi to get involved with Maul when there are scores of outer rim worlds that need to be saved from the separatists and he is their best general. He didn't think that the identity of Sidious was that important as opposed to the war that was hanging over all of them constantly and that he must constantly monitor update and command the war and fight in it too.

They did start taking the threat of Sidious seriously towards the end when they began to get a whiff of perspectives they couldn't have gotten before and by some sensibility from Mace and Obi Wan you get the idea that they had begun catching on. But by that time, it was way too late.

Not saying all the decisions they made were correct, or they couldn't act more smartly, but the benefit of hindsight is actually a massive help for the movie fan or novel reader and now you factor in that the dark side had completely clouded their minds both by Sidious and by the war that was darkening the force. Simply put, by the time they took Sidious and the Sith seriously and understood the grand plan and realized it proved contrary to everything they had assumed about the Sith and their style of fighting and their behaviour, it became too late for them to correct the situation.



The Jedi DID know about the Banite Sith and how they operated or at the very least knew about the Rule of Two.

Theres is some seriously boneheaded choices that happened in the PT that hindsight or not the Jedi should've been all over;

- malfunctioning chip in Tup

- finding out that Tyranus and Dooku were one and the same therefore finding out that Tyranus recruited the Clone Army template

- not going over the senate with a fine tooth comb as soon as Dooku said that Sidious infiltrated the Senate and controls many senators

- EVERything they did with Anakin

Old Post Feb 4th, 2019 09:54 AM
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DarthCaedus77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Geistalt
#EmperordmbWasRight


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2019 11:23 AM
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Lord Lucien
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It's almost like the PT was badly written or something...


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2019 01:02 AM
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relentless1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's almost like the PT was badly written or something...


most thing revolving around Anakin and Padme yes... but the Empire/Sidious' rise was handled very well, side effect was the ineptitude of the Jedi which is a great angle to go with, the OT made the Jedi seem infallible; incapable of doing any wrong so it was great expansion of the story depicting the reality of the Jedi as a listless corporation that was basically out of touch with the current landscape and thats why they weren't capable of properly detecting or countering the rise of the Sith

Old Post Feb 5th, 2019 02:51 AM
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