Yeah it did seem like they weren't behaving like the society that had achieved all this peace and overcome war and all that.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
in all honesty, this time no sarcasm was intended. I agree with you, we don't need edgy darkness in Star Trek, we need hope for something better. We need more than tropes acting as social commentary for now. I want my Utopia back, that said I am enjoying this show.
Why can't the displaced Romulans find refuge in the Romulan empire?
An empire usually consist of more then one single planet.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I'm trying to enjoy it. There are parts I do like. It's just... It still feels like there's no nuance or subtlety. For example: Admirals were almost always dicks in the old shows. It was just how it was. But the way that Admiral spoke to Picard... JFC. I know Roddenberry was a military man, and that informed a lot of his writing, but there were plenty of writers after him that knew how to write characters that behaved in a way that was at least somewhat properly for their rank.
Dunno, imo, the "edgy darkness" can work in Trek, if done right. As it could be a fulcrum for the fight to the return to the nigh perfect-little-society Trek is supposed to be. Even though we've had hints of this not being entirely true through various series.
I've only seen ep1 of Picard though. So maybe there's something in ep2 that shits on what I just said and I'll be buttmad later tonight.
Rob, got to say I'm with Pr, no one would speak to Picard like that Admiral, he Jean Luc ****ing Picard, second only to James Tiberius Kirk and Peer of shaft in space Sisko.
Damn just caught up now and got over excited hearing the *spoilers* of Data being in this... I guess those Pre-2009 Trek Countdown comics are non-canon. Although we still have the Romulan-Borg connection.
Show been a bit slow in its build up. Should have waited for more episodes to binge. Oh and f*** that Admiral!
In terms of darkness/edgy/imperfect Federation though, hate to say but it might be needed when telling an ongoing story. Remember TNG was always a every episode is its own thing, much like the Original series. But I imagine it may be hard to keep an ongoing story with a better than pure Federation sorting out the rest of the imperfect Galaxy. Remember DS9 was able to have tons of imperfections with the crew because it wasnt a Federation Station or System. And the show was the best of the Star Trek shows because of it IMHO.
I'm going to have to (sort of) disagree with you there.
Granted, I agree that long-form TV shows need conflict, and Roddenberry's idea that there was no interpersonal issues was never going to work long-term. That said, I wholly disagree with you about DS9.
For me, DS9 was about imperfect people basically doing their best to keep the Federation up on that pedestal that TOS and TNG had put it on. I'm not saying they don't question it at times, but when push comes to shove, Sisko and Bashir (who are the most pro-Fed guys) are the biggest proponents of "No, the Federation is better than this. You're (the villain) not representative of our ideals. We're better than this, and if we're not, then we should be".
DS9 excelled, partially imo, because the Federation WAS a paradise, and Starfleet officers were forced to see what life was like outside of that paradise. Kind of like when affluent people visit bad neighbourhoods to volunteer at soup kitchens.
I'm not saying there aren't bastards in Starfleet or the Federation. There are. But they were always the minority. It wasn't Federation policy to let entire species simply die. Even when they were their enemies (Like the Klingons with Praxis).
And to play devil's advocate, even if I did agree with you, there's a massive, massive ****ing chasm between "we're not perfect" and "Yes, the Federation gets to decide who lives or dies".
Apologies for the rant. I don't mean to get heated.
^ Oh I think you misinterpreted my point on DS9. I wasnt implying that they screwed over the Federation Utopia (I still remember Siskos speech on Earth being the problem because its Paradise).
What I meant was its hard to have real conflict and moral ambiguity in Paradise, which is why being on a non-Federation post with a whole bunch of non-Federation species brought a whole plethora of potential storylines and much more room for potential character growth.
I also agree theyve taken it way overboard in Picard with the Humans and Earth not being a anywhere close to perfect Civilisation. I was simply making the point that where the story is ongoing, (which DS9 May have actually started the trend for), the writing could get very difficult very quickly without any moral ambiguity in the characters.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Feb 1st, 2020 at 05:32 PM
Agreed. Even in today's real life political climate, serving as heroically as he has would mean something.
The Borg invasion alone should demand a degree of respect, no matter how senile you think he'd become.
I mean, anyone else would have been drummed out of the service with the stunts Kirk pulled in Voyage Home, if not for the fact he literally saved the homeworld.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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