Ah, Midichlorians. My least favourite thing in the world. I read a review which slated TPM, but their likening the Midichlorians to "performing an autopsy on Santa Claus" was perfect. It worked for the purposes of showing how strong Anakin was with the Force, but giving it a numerical value seemed daft to me. I'd like to post a new topic about the subject to get everyone's opinion, but I'm new to the boards and I don't know whether it's been covered already.
Told you I did, reckless is Ush. Now, matters are worse.
OK, a ghost appearance will definately blow yout theory out of the water, I'm opting for that. I agree that OB1 disappearance was a surprise to Vader, he had never seen this before. I believe it has to do with a certain 'growth' in the Force. A certain maturity that OB1 and Yoda found out about. Vader had no way of learning about that, he was always a Sith until the last minutes before he died.
Cinematograhically, I think Vader disapearing is extremey weak. If this was GL's plan he should have shown him disappearing. A major error, IMHO OC. But when Qui-Gon appears we will all learn that the burning is a kind of purge, to cleanse a incomplete Jedi from his shortcomings/faults. Fits in with mythological and religious motifs.
Oh what, Qui-Gon has to be burnt but not Obi-Wan? VERY unfair.
An appearance by Qui-Gon would ALMOST certainly destroy my theory... it could be rigged to work out (like if he says something to the efefct that from NOW ON, you will have to disappear at death to achieve this...)
Clutch clutch...
Look, mey theory WORKS far better than any other- it is far simpler and makes the most sense. The only objection you can come up with is 'Why didn't Vader disappear', and is it happens most people (AND RM) think he DID. Every other theory has some whacking great hole in it.
IF Qui-Gon comes back as a ghost, how come HE does it, and no-one else ever in history before him, eh?
Qui Gon didn't come back or disappear because he had done nothing to bring the balance of the Force back to the light side. He brought Anakin into the equation, which directly, was a bad move. Both Yoda and Obi Wan played a huge part in Luke's upbringing and training, hence bringing the balance back to the light side and they were allowed to retain their identities after death. The Vader thing fits too, he killed the Emperor and so despite his failure as a Jedi, he ended Palpatine's rule and brought the balance back to the light side. Laugh if you want, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But if you find I'm right come 2002, you will bow to me. Oh yes, much bowing will be done.
I'm not entirely sure whose side you are on there...
You are right most of the way, except... Qui-Gon's move was NOT a bad thing! Without Qui-Gon, Anakin would never have been there and the Emperor would not have been defeated. Qui-Gon laid the first step in saving the Galaxy; had he lived, it would have gone far better. Dying was his only error.
Obi-Wan, whose unfortunate errors cockec up QG's plan, is FAR more guilty.
I dunno, Obi Wan's cautious approach to Anakin, whilst leading to failure, may have been better than Qui Gon's. Perhaps under Qui Gon's watchful eye, Vader would have been entirely heartless, and the twins may not even have existed. Who knows? This is the sort of debate which would be better conducted after episode 2, after we have a better idea of the effects of Obi Wan's training on Anakin. I feel that GL will probably blow all of our theories out of the water...
i am really enjoying this topic, so allow me to add a comment for a second time. i was at first inclined to believe that disappearing was the manner in which a jedi passes away from natural causes, like yoda. however then, the obvious OB1 problem arose. so i propose this: both jedi disappeared after intending to live out there lives in relative solitude (degobah, and jundland wastes). so maybe there's more of a connection between the time of the disappearance in relation to where the particular jedi is in his relationship with the force. like a buddhist monk reaching enlightenment, so they are no longer re-encarnated(eventhough the force was certainly not finished with either). so this would address vader's confusion when OB1 disappears. he had never seen a jedi die after that point. especially the ones he murders. sorrysolong
I agree Jeffrey. I think the desolation and meditation contributed big time to becomeing one with the Force or something.
But USh, let's set a few things straight here. If Qui-Gon DOES appear as a ghost, we don NOT know that'll be the first time in the history of the universe. That's an assumption based on nothing. So far all we know is this: some Jedi disappear upon death and some are burned after death. Qui-Gon did not disappear and was burned. OB1 disappeared much to Vader's surprise (whom we can safely assume killed numerous Jedi). Yoda disappeared upon death. Anakin, we do not know, yet he was burned, his armour at least. After burning Anakin appeared as a ghost, AFTER OB1 and Yoda were visible, as if he just arrived.
And that's ALL we know Ush, ALL. When Qui-Gon appears as a ghost, the fire as a cleansing purge is definate.
If it turns out to be true that Anakin disappeared, I will concede. But I will also state and defend that I think this scene is then a major cinematographical error.
It's not a major error at all, and I thought it was pretty obvious.
Here is what we know:
Anakin is never taught at any point that Jedi can disappear after death. he does not know it can happen Therefore, JEDI are not taught this. This is because it NEVER HAPPENS!
If it has happened before, it is in the depths of unrecorded history.
We know that RM has said that Anakin disappeared after death.
We know that GL has said that Jedi do not normally disappear after death, and we will find out why the three in the OT do in Episodes II and III.
We know that Anakin does NOT know about the Ghost form. We know that, therefore, this is also something else that will be discovered in Episodes II and III. I reckon it is obvious to assume that ther two are linked- those that disappear, come back as a ghost. MAYBE only visible to Luke; we don't know yet.
If they are not linked it is ludicrous- BOTH mystical things are discovered in the next two films? Unlikely.
How much more bloody obvious do you want it? The implications are crystal clear.
So more EU sources eh? Not very convincing.
And OB1 CAN'T help Luke. He clearly said he couldn't interfere. All he could do is send him to Yoda. So it still fits.
Not strong enough evidence for me, Ush. Besides, maybe IF Qui-Gon appears, why would he appear to Anakin and not just to OB1? OB1 was his apprentice, Anakin never was.
I note the official website is clear about Anakin's body:
<As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night.>
I think my position is looking stronger...