Reality part 2

Jesus, you guys are really close-minded.

Krazz i can see where you're coming from. People always jumped down my throat when i posted my beliefs.
But what you're touching on is like you said YOUR BELIEFS, and his are just as valid as anyone elses. You seem to all make fun of him for saying things like "atoms don't exist/might not exist" or you jump to the conclusion that what he and others experience are common things such as tiredness, BUT this is only your perception.

The whole philosophy of perception is what the matrix (the movie) deals with and this whole thread is a fine example of different perceptions. Krazz isn't crazy (in his mind/his perception) and i'm assuming to most of the other posters on this thread Krazz is crazy(in your minds/your perceptions) Well who's perception is correct? We don't know.

Science itself is another perception, nowadays many more people except sciences explanations for things rather than for example religious concepts. But hundreds and even thousands of years ago science was a joke, and was not accepted. People closed their minds to it, much like people do nowadays for things that aren't "scientifically proven." User Another_Smitty posted examples of this above.

So quit your arrogance and stop being to thick headed and solid in your own beliefs that you can't open your mind to things you never thought possible.

jesus people

Amen to that! I think we are all waiting for something, I don't know what but we are waiting, maybe for a sign, an omen or we are waiting to wait more again. Never count out a possibility, always agree but not a full 100% always consider the other route, and in life there are many routes, some detours, some dead ends. No one knows until its handed to you on a silver plate and then its too late. Never deny something even if it not plausible currently. People believed and they believed and they were'nt held back by the non-believers, and if it were'nt for the believers the human race would be still hunting with clubs and still eating raw meat. We can't explain everything like why do machines exist? Why were they made, well the simple answer is that "they do our work for us". Just look at the African slaves (I am not dissing the African-Americans) they were'nt very bright they knew nothing compared to the white men, infact they did everything that the white men told them to do. Then the african american slaves started to become more knowledgable about just actions and thoughts, and finally rebelled and won (thanks to the union) but again everything has a begining and a purpose, we do not know what the future holds and we do not know what the past held.

o yes someone comes in here and says we live in a matrix of our own o no hes not f%*ked in the head none what so ever serously. there r line to beliefs systems and crazy asss cults this kid cult just like those 2 kids in the south wit all those guuns were gonna kill everyone thinkin matrix was real and they were freedom fighter. this kid is just another dumb example of it and probally is gonna end up killing someone

ur right everyone dose has choice to believe what they want. but the choices we make. make what were r wether its good or bad, insane or crazy, true or not and im not gonna belive a damn lil kid who seen one to many movies.

Silentfaf, please learn some punctuation, your bad spelling and grammar hurts my poor insane little mind. I am not planning on Killing anyone, and also, unlike in the US, its practically impossible to even get hold of a weapon here. Also for the third time can I point out I did NOT say atoms don't exist I said that u know, the balls with the other balls spinnin round them, thats how we believe they look, well that IS a theory. Ok it is a very solid theory, but im sure it started off less solid than it is now. Also I would like to point out something someone posted in another string that people already believed that we live in a matrix, and they contacted the Watchowski(sp?) brothers because, as it is pointed out, our minds cannot make a mental connection to something it has not seen, for example if I say imagine you are now laying in a pod hooked up to a machine, then you would imagine a virtual you, in a virtual pod, because you have not seen it, so you cannot make a mental connection to it. So the people contacted the W. Brothers, and had a film made to inform people of the 'matrix' and it was a success, and also it caused a hell of a lot of people to begin to believe. Now, after watching other films I do not perhaps become a hitman, or want to join the army, so why did this film cause so many to believe? Perhaps because deep deep down we know it is true, and we do believe, but thanks to society we are told these thoughts are insane, so you close your mind to it. And some people did not close their minds, and started to search for evidence, as I did. Like smithy said, 99.99% of him thinks I am crazy, but 0.01% does not. If you expand on what that 0.01% tells you, if you would just look and not have such a negative attitude towards whatever you find, then you would see, you would realise that there are many who believe, and with valid reason. (just a side note, if you come across Dave Oshana, kill him, hes just a crazy priest!!)

i know i cant spell and punctuation in forums and i dont care beats the point but your still a idoit to me. u come off as very gullable lol ur never gonna get laid

Actually, no, these beliefs aren't valid and I tire of the idea that such ridiculous views should be given 'equality' with everyone elses, nor should anyone be called closed-minded for rejecting the idiotic- that is merely the process of the rational mind. 113- calm the heck down.

And incidentally, Krazz, you are talking with great ignorance about causal connection. The film would NOT provide a causal connection to any outside reality- it would still be the same virtual pods that people woul only be able to imagine in any case. Only be ACTUALLY being freed and seeing the ACTUAL pods could a proper causal connection be made. Making a film about it is no different to simply telling people about it. Do your research right in future (or, seeing as you got that from the Matrix website, simply read that more carefully). People often get their Putnam all wrong; it really is a very simple point- until you actually experience something you cannot truly refer to it in your brain when speaking of it. A film is NOT actual experience! The entire point of that article was that it did not matter how much Morpheus TELLS Neo he is just a human in a pod, Neo woulds be unable to conceive the ACTUAL pod until he is freed because before then, having lived his while life in a virtual world, all objects he imagines would actually be virtual ones. Whoich is WHY Morpheus says "No-one can be TOLD what the Matrix is." You are saying the Brothers are telling people what it is- but by their own script and beliefs, that is something they COULD NOT DO even if your idea was true which, of course, it is not. And this would not even make any difference. Neo might not be able to make a causal connection to a real-life pod. But so what? He could still understand the concept that he was a prisoner. The virtual pods he imagines would be utterly the same as the REAL pods except that on some abstract, objective level they wouldn't actually be real. It makes no difference at all! So even your invoking of Putnam's theories are utterly irrelevant.

Sorry, just that people abusing Putnam really annoys me.

Closing. Do NOT open a topic on this ridiculous subject again. I do not care about your site or whatever mails you have recevied, they are irrelevant to this place, and this debate is a pointless dead end.