Jedi, neo didnt stay dead because of trinitys love, like you said. but smith didnt stay dead because of his hate... and yes it is hate, as you can see he starts to have human emotions towards the end of M1.
B166ER > They do have a connection, incase you missed the part in M2 where smith says "Then your aware of it?... ...Our Connection"
Sifer>
“Omega: Ignorance for you it seems, is bliss.
You clearly haven't watched the films properly if you disagree. ”
Out of curiosity: Who has given YOU monopoly on the truth? What makes YOU the sole authority on interpretation of the movies? So if someone disagrees with YOU, THEY are the ones who’re wrong, not YOU?
I’m not saying, that Neo and Smith are not connected. Like Smith says in ETM “I’m the Alpha of your Omega.” That is, “I’m the beginning of your end.” My point is simply, that you over-interpret their connection, as if one mirrors the other. It’s not as simple as that, it’s far more complex. Agent Smith essentially helped created Neo, and Neo created the Smith-virus.
So wipe your eyes, and calm down.
Maybe i didn't say it in so many words, but that is what was implied, as Smith hated the humans, maybe or the Matrix, more likely, so much that he would disobey his programming and come back, unplugged.
Guys, or girls,whichever, there are more ideas than just yours, and none of us knows exactly which is right, until Revolutions, and we may still not know the answers to all our questions, unless the W-ski bros. do an interview and allow all questions to be asked, all answers revealed. I'm not saying either one of you is essentially wrong, but not everyone, including the W-ski bros., may agree with you.
Firstly, I did not in any way say that I am a SOLE authority on the Matrix. But ffs, isn't it obvious that they are connected - Smith say's it himself ffs. I am absolutely not over-interpreting their connection at all and if you want another example to prove otherwise then here goes:
Revolutions Trailer:
Smith and Neo facing each other standing along the double yellow lines down the centre of the road. They start running towards each other at EXACTLY the same time, they take steps at EXACTLY the same time, they are running in EXACTLY the same way, they are both running with one foot on one line, one on the other. Then when they reach each other they take EXACTLY the same type of punch, hit each other at EXACTLY the same time and fly backwards at EXACTLY the same time.
Also, I did not state anywhere in this thread WHY I think it is happening, I said that it IS happening and you tried to prove otherwise. Now after me telling you the things they have done which the other has done, you say that I am over interpreting it and then in the same sentence you say its far more complex. Again, I have not stated WHY it is happening, just that it is. So from every post in this thread, have I said one thing that DOESN'T happen in the films or have I said anything that is a theory on WHY it happens. No.
DonWon: Smith = 0 and Neo = 1. Binary, it's impossible without both a 1 and 0. I tried to explain this a while back on another board (namely GameFaqs.com) and it's cool that someone else has said it (other than me and my friends).
Icon: B166ER actually said that they had a connection 🙂
I don't usually get this frustrated but it is something that is in plain sight in both movies and even the trailer for the 3rd movie. 90% isn't even subtle, it's like !boom! straight in your face. And it isn't something that I gave a reason for (in this thread) but I was accused of my reason being wrong.
I'm chilled now 🙂 but really, if you're interested in more, then are a few more instances. But there is something important as to WHY Smith is doing some of these things (specifically AFTER Smith is destroyed in the 1st Movie) and this can be explained by something Neo himself says in conjunction with the Oracle - 2nd Movie, bench, something about programs 🙂
Sifer,
What you originally said was “Everything that has happened to Neo has happened to Smith (Vice Versa) EXCEPT For flying and copying.” This is not correct.
Just because your gave examples of things that have happened to both characters does not prove your point, as there are numerous instances, activities, etc. that one has done and the other hasn’t. (ex. Smith captured and beat up Morpheus; Smith (supposedly) killed several people who have gotten out of the system (as have other agents). Neo has done neither. Neo made love to Trinity. Neo brought Trinity back to life – Smith has brought no one back to life, and it is doubtful that he has made love to a women, especially since he hates the smell of us humans.
You point out “Smith refuses to be deleted by choosing the Matrix instead of the Source. Neo does the same.” This is not correct. Smith refuses to be deleted. He (along with other programs) hides in the Matrix. Neo is never faced with the decision of being deleted. Neo chooses the Matrix in an effort to save Trinity. Just because they have both chosen the Matrix, for completely different reasons and in completely different situations does not prove your point, or make them the same person. I assume you have read a book. I have used books as paper weights and doorstops. That doesn’t mean you and I are the same person.
When Omega points out that there are differences, you respond with “You clearly haven't watched the films properly if you disagree. The points you just tried to retort with are to put it bluntly, pathetic…” And this is coming from someone who uses the fact that both Smith and Neo screamed “No!” at different points in the movie.
Just because you have an opinion, doesn’t mean it is correct or incorrect. It is just an opinion nothing more, nothing less. You may be right, you may be wrong, you may be a little of both. The reality is it is just a movie.
As for the Smith and Neo comparison and relationship, yes there is something there. Part of this is movie making, part of this is classic story telling. (Good guy vs. Bad Guy) If there was no Agent Smith, Neo and the gang would have a much easier time reaching the end of the story, and this translates into a pretty dull story. Put a character in their way, with equivalent (maybe different, but roughly the same abilities so that it is an even fight) and then you have true conflict. (Imagine if the creature from Alien was let loose on a school full of children. Slaughter. No tension. No question as to what will happen. Put him on a ship where the humans have guns and brains and an ability to kill the alien, then story starts to get interesting.)
In the Matrix, Smith has many of the abilities that Neo does, for this reason. If Neo could simply kill him with a swat of his hand or vice versa, we wouldn’t be waiting for M3 to come out. Thus, as Neo’s powers increase, so will Smith’s. In some ways, Neo and Smith are in more of a Yin-Yang relationship. As they travel down the road together, Smith seems to be coming more human (he can now live outside the Matrix), while Neo is becoming more program (he can control Sentinals?). All this is to set up the final conflict between the two, which appears to happen in M3.
Chow baby.
Originally posted by tshirt
Sifer,
What you originally said was “Everything that has happened to Neo has happened to Smith (Vice Versa) EXCEPT For flying and copying.” This is not correct.Just because your gave examples of things that have happened to both characters does not prove your point, as there are numerous instances, activities, etc. that one has done and the other hasn’t. (ex. Smith captured and beat up Morpheus; Smith (supposedly) killed several people who have gotten out of the system (as have other agents). Neo has done neither. Neo made love to Trinity. Neo brought Trinity back to life – Smith has brought no one back to life, and it is doubtful that he has made love to a women, especially since he hates the smell of us humans.
You point out “Smith refuses to be deleted by choosing the Matrix instead of the Source. Neo does the same.” This is not correct. Smith refuses to be deleted. He (along with other programs) hides in the Matrix. Neo is never faced with the decision of being deleted. Neo chooses the Matrix in an effort to save Trinity. Just because they have both chosen the Matrix, for completely different reasons and in completely different situations does not prove your point, or make them the same person. I assume you have read a book. I have used books as paper weights and doorstops. That doesn’t mean you and I are the same person.
When Omega points out that there are differences, you respond with “You clearly haven't watched the films properly if you disagree. The points you just tried to retort with are to put it bluntly, pathetic…” And this is coming from someone who uses the fact that both Smith and Neo screamed “No!” at different points in the movie.
Just because you have an opinion, doesn’t mean it is correct or incorrect. It is just an opinion nothing more, nothing less. You may be right, you may be wrong, you may be a little of both. The reality is it is just a movie.
As for the Smith and Neo comparison and relationship, yes there is something there. Part of this is movie making, part of this is classic story telling. (Good guy vs. Bad Guy) If there was no Agent Smith, Neo and the gang would have a much easier time reaching the end of the story, and this translates into a pretty dull story. Put a character in their way, with equivalent (maybe different, but roughly the same abilities so that it is an even fight) and then you have true conflict. (Imagine if the creature from Alien was let loose on a school full of children. Slaughter. No tension. No question as to what will happen. Put him on a ship where the humans have guns and brains and an ability to kill the alien, then story starts to get interesting.)
In the Matrix, Smith has many of the abilities that Neo does, for this reason. If Neo could simply kill him with a swat of his hand or vice versa, we wouldn’t be waiting for M3 to come out. Thus, as Neo’s powers increase, so will Smith’s. In some ways, Neo and Smith are in more of a Yin-Yang relationship. As they travel down the road together, Smith seems to be coming more human (he can now live outside the Matrix), while Neo is becoming more program (he can control Sentinals?). All this is to set up the final conflict between the two, which appears to happen in M3.
Chow baby.
Very Well put! 🙂 All of it 🙂
It's just coincidence that they mimick each others actions I guess....ahh well...oh wait - Providence, Purpose, not coincidence 🙂
I just find it funny how some of you can't see the MASSIVE correlation between Neo and Smiths actions. Yes there are variations in they way they do it and I never said there wasn't. But there is nothing wrong about the information I said at all, and if you had read my other posts on this board you should know I know what I am talking about. Everything I put was in simple form to prove that its there, you cannot deny it either because it is definately there. Well you can deny it, but that's your choice aint it 😛
Sifer, tshirt, what each of you say is correct; they are a Yin-Yang relationship, and they are very similar, because they are MEANT to be so. It helps the story that Neo and Smith are similar, almost like different versions of the same man, like the different versions of Raskolnikov in "Crime and Punishment". There is a method to the madness, because it is more interesting if the antagonist and protagonist are similar: it gets boring really quick if one is much more powerful than the other, or if one is stupider than the other.
SO STOP ARGUING!!!