about the "just war":
of course it's unjust! in case you didn't notice, every country out there (well, besides the traditional lapdogs aka the 51st and 52d state) thinks the USA is the biggest adversary of world peace.
The only and sole reason you (well, I use you and not "american government, cause you type "we"😉 went to Kuwait was for their oil, heck, before the war, you wouldn't even knew where to find it on a world map! At THAT time, Saddam went out of line with creating a war and indeed, he should have been court marshaled for the tribunale in Den Haag. Indeed, THAT was an unjust action, by a tyran which the US blew out of porpotion.
Now about THIS war on "terrorism" which is the funniest bullshit I ever heard.
There is no denying that when Bush entered the office your economics went down the drain (you can barely temper the numbers), what is better to let people stop talking about that? Quite easy, start a war, any war! it's a 'trick' they already knew in ancient Greece, and people still fall for it
why did you attack afghanistan? because of the World Trade Towers who mysteriously fell down due to the plane crashes? (but that's another theory) did they do something wrong? was your "objective" to destroy the taliban? no, not by a long shot, it was as pointed out the perfect way to start a war "on terrorism" to let people stop talking about the economics, you found that it was easier to hunt someone down who was already bullying you around: Osama Bin Laden, who never litterally said he was responsible for the attacks, he merely commented that they were great actions and such
why did you attack Iraq? what on earth did it do wrong now? yes, the first gulf war was a just case, but this is rediculous! marvelous! after attack a country that barely has roads and not even a handful of cars (non-army ones) you go bombarding a country that YOU have been tyranising for around a DECADE with all sorts of embargos which killed THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of people!
very nice going, just don't think that any sane person will ever think it's a just war!
(btw, it was operation Desert Storm, not Desert Shield)
#1. Your last statement made me laugh. Were you not around 10 years ago? We went to Kuwait under operation Desert Shield to protect Kuwait. Desert Shield lasted several months......when we actually began moving in on Iraq to push them out, we declared war. It was then changed to Operation Desert Storm. Desert Storm only lasted a week........it was the actual war. If you didn't live through it to remember it, atleast do a bit of research on the subject before correcting those of us who have. Ha.
#2. I'm not defending Bush. He is not a very good president. He has been bad for our economy (even though I prosper, I know many others don't). I even stated the whole Weapons of mass destruction angle they used to invade Iraq was a sham. It was merely an excuse, an excuse to do something however that should have been done long ago.
#3. Are you American? You seem to know very little. Osama Bin Laden has been on the U.S. 10 most wanted list for years before the 9/11 attack. He was wanted for several other attacks (including an earlier attempt at bombing the World Trade Center) against the U.S. What the hell are you talking about when you say there is no proof he was connected to 9/11 and so we shouldn't go after him? He was already public enemy number one for YEARS before the world trade center attack.
Now....about Afghanistan. They knew they were harboring terrorists. We asked them nicely to give them up. They politely declined. It was their choice. All they had to do is say, "yes...we know this ******* Bin Laden has been attacking your country for years. Here is where he lives" and point us to him. The Afghani government were accessories after the fact. They knew all the crimes the man had committed and still wanted to hide him out, protect him.
#4. As far as what the rest of the world thinks of the U.S.........I don't care, most Americans don't.
Germany.....okay, they have no right to talk about anyone at any time. Atleast us Americans havn't rounded up millions of people and killed them soly because of their ethnicity. I guess all those finger pointing Germans would just love to forget about their whole little nazi party debacle.
The U.K and Spain.....both were damn near as bad as the Germans. Both came to the Americas and slaughtered millions of natives so they could steal their land. Hell....atleast the Germans didn't erase the entire Hebrew race. I live here in America........do you know how many native Americans there are? Not many. I know probably 20 altogehter.....and about half of those are directly related to me. Boo hoo.....some Iraqi or Afghan civilians are dead. How about the millions of Native Americans the English and Spanish decided to kill simply because they did not share the same religious beliefs and they wanted their land.
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
The U.K and Spain.....both were damn near as bad as the Germans. Both came to the Americas and slaughtered millions of natives so they could steal their land. Hell....atleast the Germans didn't erase the entire Hebrew race. I live here in America........do you know how many native Americans there are? Not many. I know probably 20 altogehter.....and about half of those are directly related to me. Boo hoo.....some Iraqi or Afghan civilians are dead. How about the millions of Native Americans the English and Spanish decided to kill simply because they did not share the same religious beliefs and they wanted their land.
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
That wasnt very fair thing you said there.
''Boo hoo.....some Iraqi or Afghan civilians are dead. How about the millions of Native Americans the English and Spanish decided to kill simply because they did not share the same religious beliefs and they wanted their land.''
Basicly, by saing, so what if some Afganistani people are dead, you are supporting the statement you just said was wrong....about english and spanish killing Native Americans...
What about all Vietnamise people that died, that Americans killed? What about nuks dropped on Hiroshima and Nagassaki? What about People that are dying in Iraq and Afganistan, sorry, getting murdered? What about all of them!
Osama Bin Laden was MADE by America!! So was Taliban!
Tell me who gave the weapons to the Taliban to get rid of the Russians? America did!
Bush is finishing off what his father never managed to do...get rid of Hussein.
Oil!! Its all about the damn oil! Everyone knows it...you know it too!
Yes, I was, and remembering names about military actions isn't a thing I fill my life with, perhaps I should have known this yes
I'm glad you wrote point 2, most of the americans do not want to accept this 🙂
to your point three... no, I praise myself lucky every day that I'm not.
Yeah, I know OBL was in the top 10 list, that 's not difficult to know.
Now take a stap back and tell me exactly WHY do you think that OBL did it! Did he ever said he did? no. The only thing that happened was that your government had a "clue" that it was him and started attacking afghanistan because they refused to say if he was in Afghanistan. They never said which "clue" it was nor with what it was backed up!
of course Afhganistan declined! they, as a lot of other countries, can't stand america and OBL is their symbol of trying to get a better life, one without the states that keep bugging them. But to understand that, you apperently can't be an american, cause as far as I know, not a single american got that point
And yeah, I already know that most of the americans don't care that 95% of the world think that your government is the biggest @$$ in the world.
You're really smallminded you know, you go and stab a country (germany) by an action A SINGLE MAN did in 1940 (well, and before that too, his rise to power and the WW 1), it's just incredibly stupid to keep telling that! if you go and do that to every country ... why does the US have the right to talk? you had slavery! you killed millions of indians! you still have the KKK! want me to continue? you think a country should be held responsible for what a government did 60 years ago?????
are you a native american? if not, better not continue to talk about the UK and Spain, cause the change is high one of your ancestors is ... that of being Irish I take 😉 you really are smallminded if you go all the way back in time THAT far to find SOME dirt on a country! plain rediculous!
and YES, it's a pain that the indians have suffered, but you showed your at least as hatefull as the UK and Spain you dislike if you say that you don't mind that the Iraqi and Afghan culture would be destroyed!
to your point three... no, I praise myself lucky every day that I'm not.
Yeah, I know OBL was in the top 10 list, that 's not difficult to know.
Now take a stap back and tell me exactly WHY do you think that OBL did it! Did he ever said he did? no. The only thing that happened was that your government had a "clue" that it was him and started attacking afghanistan because they refused to say if he was in Afghanistan. They never said which "clue" it was nor with what it was backed up!
If you read my post more carefully.......I said it didn't matter if Osama Bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or not. Let's assume he wasn't involved at all. He was already on our top 10 list for years before 2001.......for acts of terrorism against the U.S. Even if 9/11 had never happened we should be going out of our way to bring this dangerous man in. He doesn't attack military installations....that would take guts. He attacks innocent civilians for the sole purpose of killing as many as he can. You post as if Bin Laden's name was brought up after 9/11......no, it was around for 8 years before due to other terrorist attacks that he DID CLAIM THAT HE DID.
of course Afhganistan declined! they, as a lot of other countries, can't stand america and OBL is their symbol of trying to get a better life, one without the states that keep bugging them.
How is a mad man killing thousands of innocent people a symbol of hope? I can see if he were killing American military personell or government officials.......that might give hope to anti-American factions....but to bomb a tour bus in Egypt.......or bomb the WTC (yes, he admitted doing this...I believe it was in '93, may be wrong on date)......now how does that give hope to anybody? Okay, he kills a couple of plumbers and construction workers.........what's the point other than he just likes killing people?
And yeah, I already know that most of the americans don't care that 95% of the world think that your government is the biggest @$$ in the world.
You're really smallminded you know, you go and stab a country (germany) by an action A SINGLE MAN did in 1940 (well, and before that too, his rise to power and the WW 1), it's just incredibly stupid to keep telling that! if you go and do that to every country ... why does the US have the right to talk? you had slavery! you killed millions of indians! you still have the KKK! want me to continue? you think a country should be held responsible for what a government did 60 years ago?????
First of all, it wasn't a single man. It was the entire governmental party known as the Nazi party.
Secondly, it was not the Americans who slaughtered native Americans. It was British settlers and Spanish settlers. This began almost 300 years before there was such a country as U.S.A., there were only British and Spanish colonies. Same goes for slavery. It was started by the british before there even was a country known as the U.S.A. You need to crack open a history book now and again. Yes, the Americans did continue to the practice after we won our independence. It is nothing to be proud of.
It is not small minded at all to point out atrocities that other countries have committed in the past. Why should Germany reserve the right to blast Americans when they have just as much blood on their hands. Same goes for the British. Sure, America has had it's fair share of blood spill .......but no more and actually less than other countries. Hence my comment "Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house".
If you attack a country for something it is doing.......you'd better make sure you havn't done equal or worse in the past. This is called hypocracy.
are you a native american? if not, better not continue to talk about the UK and Spain, cause the change is
Gee......you catch on quick. I already posted that of the twenty or so full blooded native americans I know, half are directly related to me.
and for the record.......I never once said any culture should be destroyed. I simply said that America is justified in military actions against those countries who promote terrorism......terrorism against any country, not just the U.S. If some terrorist group decided they wanted to blow up Buckingham Palace and the British Parliment and another country like Iraq or Afghanistan offered to hide the terrorists, to help them evade capture.........I would find it just as acceptable for the U.K. to launch military strikes against these terrorist cohorts. There has been too much terrorism worldwide in the past 30 years and it's time for it to stop. It cannot be tolerated any longer. There have been terrorist actions in numerous countries from the U.S., to England, to Egypt, etc.......all must be stopped. If the Afghani government says "hey....haha, you guys are getting killed left and right....we're going to hide the people who's attacking you" then they are part of the terrorist actions and are equally as responsible.
What about all Vietnamise people that died, that Americans killed? What about nuks dropped on Hiroshima and Nagassaki? What about People that are dying in Iraq and Afganistan, sorry, getting murdered? What about all of them!
Bitchiness.......while good points, those were all acts of consentual wars. One can even make the argument that Afghanistan itself declared war when it was revealed that para-military factions were committing acts of War against the U.S. and the government supported them 100%. Anytime a government supports an act of war against another country.......that government should expect retaliation. No matter the country.
Osama Bin Laden was MADE by America!! So was Taliban!
Tell me who gave the weapons to the Taliban to get rid of the Russians? America did!
Bush is finishing off what his father never managed to do...get rid of Hussein.
Very good point..........hindsight is 20/20. We trained the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden to help them defend themselves against an occupying nation, Russia. Never did we dream that they would turn coat so quickly and turn traitor on the U.S.A. I guess that is what the U.S. gets for trying to help them defend themselves.........we give them training, we give them weapons, we even gave them unofficial manpower.......all to protect themselves. 13 years later they decide to throw all the trust we had given them away and attack the very people who helped them preserve their way of life.
"Oil!! Its all about the damn oil! Everyone knows it...you know it too"
Desert Shield/Desert Storm was all about Oil. We wanted to protect our interests in Kuwait.......and we did. We then left.
Why do you think it is about oil now? We have been in Iraq for a long time and have not taken over a single oil operation, nor have we tried. We are once again protecting our interests........this time our interest is protecting human civilian lives. We have gotten rid of the Ba'ath party.....now we are trying to put an IRAQI government into place. The U.S. isn't trying to put U.S. personell in charge.......they are putting an Iraqi government together so we can leave and let the Iraqis live the way they wish.
Why would we want Iraq's oil? We could have taken over Kuwait's oil over a decade ago and didn't. What on earth makes you think we want to do this to Iraq. Gererally speaking, with our military power......we could overtake any oil producing country we wanted, at any time. We simply don't.
by the way guys........Saddam Hussein killed more innocent Iraqi civilians in the last 10 years than the U.S. has killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. People are going to die either way. Sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. How many Iraqi lives have been lost in the past year and a half because of the U.S. compared to how many Iraqi lives would have been lost in the last year and a half at Hussein's hands? Hussein would kill thousands of innocent Iraqis at a time.....we have never done that. We have never killed 5,000+ in one fell swoop like Hussein did to HIS OWN Kurdish citizens in northern Iraq.
Bottom line........if a dictator kills his own innocent people without cause, he should not be in power. The situation is ofcourse worstened when sed dictator decides to invade other countries and kill their citizens too.
Cuba has a dictator........do we attack Cuba? No.....do you know why? He actually loves his people.......and a good portion love him. Castro does not kill his own people by the thousands. Sure....they don't have all the rights that we do here in the U.S. but Castro does give them the right to live, which is more than Saddam Hussein ever did for his people.
Every world power knew that a storm was brewing in Iraq and something had to be done about Hussein. America was the only nation to have the balls and step up and say, "hey....we'll do something about it"..........after we stepped forward numerous countries joined in to help, the U.K., Australia, etc............they all knew it had to be done, they just didn't think they could accomplish it themselves so they waited for the U.S. to lead the way.
N. Korea was building a nuclear weapons program. We havn't attacked them. Know why? They can sit down and handle a situation in a civil manner in which both sides give a little. There was no doing that with Hussein, so he is gone.......when he is found, he will be dead. He is no better than Adolf Hitler was. Adolf killed his own Jewish citizens........Saddam killed his own citizens.......some simply because they were Kurds. Adolf invaded Poland. Saddam invaded Kuwait. See a connection anywhere?
yea.....sorry about the big post guys........just had a lot of content to get out.......
for the record.........our president is an idiot. I admit that. I didn't vote for him. I won't vote for him next time around. I don't think he is actually the one who makes big decisions. I believe he is incapable of the thought processes to do so.
I do however support our actions in the mid-east..........if someone has a history of causing trouble, remove them so they cannot cause more trouble in the future. That simple.