faults in tokiens books

Started by sauron2 pages

faults in tokiens books

now tolkien was a genius but even the best of us make mistakes, so heres were we put the FEW mistakes he made, and solve them, heres the first

In The Black Gate Opens, the Mouth of Sauron hails the Captains of the West with an introduction: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron'. This is somewhat problematic, because earlier in The Lord of the Rings, Aragorn says of Sauron that 'Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken...' (The Two Towers III 1, The Departure of Boromir). The Mouth of Sauron, though, uses the name several times without apparent embarrassment.

All the evidence suggests that Aragorn is simply wrong. Not only does the Mouth of Sauron use his Lord's 'right name' freely, but so does the messenger sent to Dáin in Erebor. Indeed, we hear about Dáin's messenger at the Council of Elrond, at which Aragorn was present: he must have been - to use Gandalf's word - 'inattentive' on this point.

One possible reason for Aragorn's error is that his information is out of date. For most of the Third Age, Sauron had been building his strength, in secret, at Dol Guldur. Given his need to remain hidden, it's natural that he would ban his servants from using his real name. Any detailed information that Aragorn had about him and his ways would date back to Gandalf's spying expeditions in this period.

The Tale of Years entry for the year III 2951 states 'Sauron declares himself openly...' At this point, about seventy years before the War of the Ring, Sauron no longer felt any need for secrecy, and so presumably permitted his name to be used from that point on. Aragorn, of course, would have had no way of knowing about this change, which would explain his mistake.

Did Tolkien intend all this? Probably not - it seems much more likely that Aragorn's words were a casual slip of the author's pen. The explanation given here, though, does make a certain amount of sense within the context of the story

The Eldar called him Sauron, but his name was also:

Gorthaur the Cruel. That is at least what I remember. I will have to consult "The Silmarillion" to confirm this. But I am pretty sure it's right.

Oh, and Tolkien always had an explanation for anything anyone faced him with. Alot of it is answered in the other books. But some, like 'Tom Bombadil', he purposely left unanswered but also left hints everywhere as to WHAT or WHO he really is 🙂

Someone bigger than one may think 😄

wow

.......dude Sauron, I really do think that you're trying to compete against Exa and Turin and all of them. *applauds* Excellent....

Wow, excellent point.

About names - I think in the beginning, Saurons name wasnt Sauron, perhaps he didnt even have a name. Afterwards he appears with many names, like Thauron, Gorthaur, Annatar, Artano, Aulendil, Dark Lord (haha intelligent name), The Black Hand, The Shadow, The Nameless (yeeees), The Lidless Eye, The Nameless Eyes, The Lord of the Ring(s) and so on and so on.

Another mistake appears in an older version of LoTR when Tolkien describes Glorfindel's horse and uses the phrase "bit and bridle" which was later changed to "headpiece", but the stirrup still remained whereas Legolas says that elves dont use stirrups when riding.

Of course some errors appear when someone writes like Tolkien who sometimes had no idea to go on with the story (fx. Faramir: "I'm sure I did not invent him. He just walked into the woods of Ithilien..."😉

well no exa it wasnt sauron in the beginning, as sauron means lord of abomintaion and at first he was not evil, he was turned that way by morgoth. so his original name is a mystery as i know he was also called Gorthaur meaning 'terrible dread' so i doubt he was originally called that, for a brief time he was known as annatar A name meaning 'Lord of Gifts, which he didnt adopt until the second age for when he tried to seduce the elves

I think he didnt have a name in the very beginning... Ainur dont need names.
Yeah I know he was a servant of Aule (->Aulendil) like Saruman, too...

well i think he did have a name on the beginning, and maybe that is what aragorn meant, he does not permit his original name to be spoken or written, his name from the very beginning of him

Thats possible, but nobody will be able to speak the name if he doesnt know it 😉

no HE knows it.....but sauron is what the elves named him.....and his name BEFORE he was branded with that....

like me now 🙂 i kill people who call me chris 😛 but i allow sauron

chris was my name BEFORE sauron 🙂

so now that im called sauron, i dislike chris 🙂

understand??

and yes, i revived this 🙂

And i did it again too

Aulendil means 'Aule-friend'-in UT, I think Christopher Tolkien made a mistake in the translation-'Servant of Aule' should be, Aulendur.
And Sauron, Sauron doesn't mean 'Lord of Abomination'?WTF?
Sauron='the Abhorred, the Abhorrent'

Originally posted by Manôkhâu
And Sauron, Sauron doesn't mean 'Lord of Abomination'?WTF?
Sauron='the Abhorred, the Abhorrent'

Doesn't "abhorrent" and "abominable" mean the same 😉 😉

Lord of Abomination was one of the names used for Sauron, so in my opinion it's not wrong to use it as a translation of "Thauron" as they meant about the same - whether there is the word "Lord" in it or not 😉

To be exact - "Sauro(n)" (<thaurond-) is the substantivation of the Quenya-word "saura-", which is normally used with the meaning "foul" or "evil-smelling"... and related to Noldorin (~later Sindarin) "thaw" which means "corrupt" or "rotten" 😛 ......... and "Thû" means "stench" 😬 😬 (rather as in "plague" or "black wind" though) (all <*THUS;; cf *THÛ "blow, breath, wind"😉

Well.......holy shit!
sorry.........

how do we know they are mistakes tho mayb he wanted them to go that way ???

😆

Originally posted by ladygrim
how do we know ...

... we never will 🙂

kewl...

Melkore
man i was noobed up

I sacrafice myself to bring to life good threads when i was all noobie style and im mocked

But you will see

Im just like jesus

really ... hmmmm