Attack on the King

Orcs are stronger then goblins. Urkai are biggest and baddest

urkai, do you mean uruk hai

Originally posted by Discos
And cheers Sauron for that extra informtation about the ring and the river, I take it Isildor didnt yank the ring off the chain but just slipped his finger in,?

i dont know sorry, i just know he put it on

but when the ring is one the chain, why doesnt the chain go invisible?? any theories

give peter jackson a break, man.

erm im not saying anything bad im just wondering, its as much as tolkiens fault as if the chain went invisible in the books sauron would have seen it wouldnt he, must be that the earth and elements of earth can resisit the ring, making a strong case for mr. bombadil

Originally posted by flickerstick
It probably would've been better for me to include the entirety of the letter, but those quotes both come from letters that are quite long. When Tolkien is writing about Orcs not being goblins, he is not making reference to his works. He is speaking about how he based orcs off of items in other literature. Specifically, he is referring to how the term goblin is used in other literature by other authors, and comparing those characterizations to his own.

Goblins ARE a breed of orcs, much in the same way the Dunedain are a particular breed of men. Goblins are the smaller kind of orcs that reside in the Misty and Grey Mountains.

From the Foreword to the Hobbit:
"[The word orc] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)."

Also, Saruman doesn't breed Goblins and Orcs (atleast not in the context of the book), he breeds orcs and men to create half-orcs or goblin-men, though I'm not quite sure if "half-orcs" and "goblin-men" are exactly the same.

Uruk-Hai (or simply Uruk) are not a cross-breed (atleast not by Saruman), but a very deadly kind of orc that came out of Mordor some 500 years prior to the war of the ring.

Originally posted by Kitoky
GOBLINS AREN'T ORCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Globins are a kind of Glamhoths and they infest the areas like the Misty Mountains, they are NOT orcs!!!

noisy horde does not nessecarily mean orcs, mummakil in hordes would be very noisy lol

Indeed it would.

Glamhoth is a name for orcs. That name means "noisy hordes".

It's from the Unfinished Tales where Tuor uses it. He says something like Gurht am glamhoth, meaning "Death to the orcs".

Originally posted by BingaBonga
Actually, I think that Goblins are Orcs. 😇

Yes they are, just like I was saying. 🤘

Originally posted by Darth Bandon
Yes they are, just like I was saying. 🤘

you guys THINK they're orcs, THINK, so why don't you go through all of what Tolkien's world really is and we'll argue about thi-- I mean discuss this later.

They are the same, deal with it. 💃

Heh, this is a classic debate...

The evidence has been mostly presented. Tolkien made it clear that Goblins and Orcs are really different 'translations' (remember, Tolkien was always pretending to be translating these words into English) of the same thing. BUT, in Middle-Earth lexicon, 'Goblin' is generally used to refer to, as Freddie says, the diminutive Orcs around the Misty Mountains.

As for the main question, Isildur was indeed ambushed by Orcs as he attempted to return to Arnor after Sauron's defeat.

The person, Sauron, who 'commanded' him to go (this is not literal, he was simply making the urgency of it known) was Isildur's son, Elendur. Furthermore, if you are using Unfinished Tales account of the incident (and remember the dodginess of using such sources), as you seem to be, Isildur did not cross the river at once but ran a considerable distance away first and so there was no-one to see him cross, or any splahses resulting from it. But, as that account has it, he was then swept upstream, lost the Ring, was seen and shot.

And the Ring conceptually hides living things and all traces of them- not inanimate objects on their own. It does not make anything within it invisible, it shrouds all traces of a living being that wears it.

Yeah what Ush said, and besides, Orcs are much prettier then Goblins....

Originally posted by Kitoky
Orcs are much prettier then Goblins....

That can't be true because they are the same.

lol, off topic.

Goblins arn't orcs!

Also Goblins nor Orcs can even be near to be classed as "pretty"

Originally posted by sauron
i dont know sorry, i just know he put it on

but when the ring is one the chain, why doesnt the chain go invisible?? any theories

🤨

Read Ush post and then go to www.glyphweb.com/arda/ and seek: orc, goblin, hobgoblin, uruk-hai.

😛

Originally posted by Corlindel
🤨

Read Ush post and then go to www.glyphweb.com/arda/ and seek: orc, goblin, hobgoblin, uruk-hai.

😛

Goblins
The race of Orcs

Dates: First appeared soon after the Awakening of the Elves; apparently still extant
Origins: Made by Melkor
Race: Orcs
Meaning: Probably originally related to kobolds, spirits said to dwell in mines1
Other Names: Glamhoth, Orcs, Yrch

A name for Orcs, and especially the smaller kinds that infested the Misty and the Grey Mountains in the later Third Age, and had their capital at Mount Gundabad.

Is there a difference between an 'Orc' and a 'Goblin'? The following quote from the foreword to The Hobbit sheds some light on this: "[The word 'Orc'] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)."(Hence the statement above; 'especially the smaller kinds'😉. This entry concentrates on the goblins of the Grey and Misty Mountains simply because it is these Orcs that Tolkien most frequently refers to by the term 'goblin'.
The word 'goblin' is also used occasionally and indiscriminately in The Lord of the Rings; it never occurs in the The Silmarillion.

Goblins are Orcs. 💃

Why the chain didnt become invisible? Because the ring could not in any way influence the mind of the chain, couldnt bring its spirit into the shadowworld

and, goblins ARE orcs 😉