Venom Ghostrider VS Hulk Juggernaut

Never are you even looking at this logically? Juggy has been defreated many times, it doesn't matter how or when the fact remains that despite his powers there were and still are ways to beat him. The whole deal with many comic characters is them overcoming high odds for failure ending up with the bad guy loseing (in most cases).

Unless there is a more recent comic in which Venom and Juggy battle the only factual MARVEL evidence as to how a battle would go is with Venom winning. Sure the possibility of Juggy wasting Venom is there, but so is that of Venom winning Juggy, as both characters have undergone substantial power boosts since their battle.

Next I've never made the claim that Venom could get through Juggy's shield by hitting him I merely suggested the possiblility of the symbiote entering through the shield on a molecular level. You say the only thing that can get through is light, but you're wrong so can sound I wonder how much else you don't know hmm... for starters Juggy's shield is only mantained at the cost of energy. The longer he keeps it up the more exhausted he gets.

I'm sure most comic book store employees know more info on characters but it doesn't mean THEY DICTATE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF 2 FOUGHT without any Marvel comic to back them up. Additionally your collecting comics for 22 + years doesn't mean you could dictate what would happen in a fight between Marvel characters without Marvel backing.

Next Venom isn't Dumb if you read any of those thousands of comics you have on Venom you'd know that. Eddie was a top student at school, granted it doesn't mean he's smart, but does prove he can learn and focus on problems. While Venom is no Reed Richards there have been plenty of comics in which Venom has understood tech enough to use it against his opponents, where he's set elaborate traps, and where he's quickly adopted new fighting styles to match his opponents. So yes with his agility and camo abilites he could hide or avoid Juggy long enough to defeat him.

As for Hulk I admit I've underated him so far, but he is still defeatable. I think the possibility of Venom using his camo to avoid Hulk untill Hulk calms down thus weaker and then suprise attacking him to knock him out may work (don't give me any crap about that not working cause I've seen that tactic used before on Hulk and work). If not that I still hold on to the POSSIBLIITY of Venom's Symbiote partially controlling or calming Hulk down (and don't give me any "Hulk has no mind" crap either. To get mad one needs emotions, which means thinking which means a mind). I admit the odds are still in Hulk's favor, but he isn't unbeatable to Venom and Ghost.

Ghost could pull Hulk off, keeping out of reach while Venom deals with Juggy, and once Juggy is dealt with then focus on Hulk.

Also Never you say that what Marvel releases isn't true, but what you say, cause you've collected comics for 22+ yr, is true? I guess you should just send a letter to Marvel telling them how stupid it was of them to do a comic of Venom defeating Juggy because you say so, don't forget to include that they do a lot of hash job comics (cause I suppose you can do them so much better).

As for the comic you brought up regarding what if the Punisher killed everyone in the Marvel universe...well if means just that...WHAT IF the Punisher killed everyone. Since you say Marvel wrote it as a comic that didn't happen but rather a comic of what if it did, sure you could argue as to whether or not Punisher could do it. However Venom did defeat Juggy so really there is no what if.

Eidolon, are you viewing this logically? Galactus has been defeated many times, would VENOM defeat him?

If Juggernaut has been boosted dramatically that means simply that his already Class 100 strength (the uppermost limits of which is NOT known) just went through the roof. He was already INVULNERABLE (Venom is NOT), his MUTANT ability is that, once moving forward, he CANNOT BE STOPPED. Get it through your head - or are you another clueless fanboy? 😕

No, the symbiote cannot enter Juggernaut's field on a "molecular level." Period.

You say the only thing that can get through is light, but you're wrong so can sound I wonder how much else you don't know hmm... for starters Juggy's shield is only mantained at the cost of energy. The longer he keeps it up the more exhausted he gets.

PROVE sound can. And um, JUGGERNAUT does not have to EAT. He does not have to BREATHE. He does not have to DRINK WATER. If there is no AIR in the forcefield, there is no SOUND (or do you not know that sound is nothing more than vibrations in the AIR). The GEM can power him INDEFINITELY - what else is it that you do not know about Juggernaut? From his OFFICIAL bio from the Handbook of the Marvel Universe:

"The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever.

>>>>>The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone."<<<<<<<<<<<

Venom is DUMB as compared to SPIDERMAN, SUPERMAN and PUNISHER. This is what I MEANT. His ability from a tactical perspective negligible at BEST.

Venom is not even as agile or quick as Spiderman is. Hush.

Again, your comments about Hulk underscores your ignorance in general. "Powers down?" The WEAKEST version of Hulk can lift SEVENTY TONS while calm - so um, how weak do you think Hulk gets? Like to see the info for yourself?

"All the incarnations of the Hulk, except for the Grey Hulk, can lift approximately 100 tons when calm. The Grey Hulk starts off at approximately 75 tons. There has never been a limit shown as to the highest strength the Hulk can reach thus it is assumed it is limitless. The Hulk has shown many incredible feats of the years, including holding up a 150 billion ton mountain during the Secret Wars and breaking open Onslaught's armor when the combined might of the rest of the world's heroes couldn't even make a scratch in it."

Why are you even MENTIONING Venom's sorry name in the same sentence with Hulk and Juggernaut? Hush it up. Seriously. Neither Venom or Ghost Rider could do a THING with Hulk except get out of the way. I have said before (you MUST not know your comic books) that the ENTIRE AVENGERS could not do a thing with Hulk - but VENOM and GHOSTRIDER could? 😆 Need I even touch on HULK'S HEALING FACTOR which is better than Wolverine's? Whoops oops you forgot about that hunh?

My God, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING about who WROTE "What If Punisher Could Kill The Marvel Universe?" GARTH Ennis did, who HATES SUPERHEROES! Helllllllo??? It was SATIRE. NO, Punisher could never kill the Marvel Universe.

Clueless you two are, I tell you.

If Juggy can still hear with his force field up then sound can enter. I know Juggy is unstoppable moving foward, but I never said Venom or Ghost would even attempt to stand infront of him and try to stop him that way. Venom's symbiote may not be able to get through Juggy's force field, but you've no proof it can't. Juggy is isn't well protected against mystical attacks which is what Ghost Riders Hell fire is, thus PROBABLY making Ghost Riders Hell fire attack and stare effective against Juggy. Also Juggy was once neutralized by a Robot form the future, which used something like sound/radio waves to knock Juggy out. It was then said that even Juggys force field may have not protected against that attack.

Juggy can't keep up his force field for ever other wise why would he ever take it down. The force field physically taxi's Cains energy.

As for Hulk, if you say no physical attack done on him would have any noticable affect that's fine by me I could see that, but my main argument for taking him down is by taking control of him with the symbiote and getting him to convert back to Banner and then killing him. I know Leader and Onslaught have been able to mind control Hulk (and probably others). Neither Venom nor Ghost have telepathic abilities but the Symbiote is said to need emotion to survie and communicates in a similar fashion to that of telepathy once on a host. I'm just saying it's a possibility.

Finally, you've mistaken what I said about the Punisher comic in which he kills everyone. First of all if it was released by Marvel all it says is WHAT IF meaning punisher killed/s all the Marvel heros and what would then happen. Not to say it could happen since it hasn't unlike Venom's and Juggy's fight.

Venom sticks to walls controlling the flux of inter-atomic attraction between molecular boundary layers. Thus maby he may be able to sneak his Symbiote in through Juggy's force field, cause of the symbiote's ability to convert to data streams (allowing to converse cyber space) and the limited ability on control on molecular boundary layers upon contact. If it can get through I could take control of Juggy. After all Juggy doesn't need food, water, oxygen, ect... but it doesn't say what all exactly can go through his force field.

this is how easy juggernuat can be beatin, dont gimme that immpenetrable force field crap becuase if it was as "perfect" as you belive it is then not even onsluaght could have harmend him.

one move and juggys toast, venom is deffinetly fast and agile enuf to shoot webbing threw juggernuats eye holes, he would have to take of his own helmet to clear the webbing, and he gets worked when it comes off.
YOU yourself said Ghostrider cannot be harmend by physical means alone, and what can either juggernuat, or hulk do to ghostrider(this is if professor hulk had no prep time and was not armed with any of his weapons).

there you go, i just yoused your own argument. and even if you dont like it TOO BAD JUGGERNUAT LOST!!

Are you certain that you know what Ghost Rider's attack does? It traumatizes the human soul. Mmmkay...then what? Exactly. That's just it. Mindless Hulk HAS no human soul...mmmkay?

Venom's symbiote cannot penetrate Juggernaut's forcefield, period - and hell, Juggernaut would not NEED his forcefield to defeat Venom. Do not take my word for it (as apparently you are not); contact someone affiliated with Marvel Comics. Hell, ANYONE with sufficient knowledge of Venom AND Juggernaut. THEY'LL tell you. I point out AGAIN that entire SQUADS are called upon to deal with Juggernaut. WHO is Venom? He simply does not register on the "superhero radar." He is a JOKE! He MIGHT be able to trash a neighborhood on a GOOD day.

Juggernaut's forcefield does NOT tax Cain's energy. YOU read it. Juggernaut can be sustained on the gem's energy alone; furthermore, Juggernaut does not use his forcefield often. That is solely up to the WRITER. Thor, for example, has TONS of abilities that are not often used in story arcs. WHY? The writer.

I keep saying MINDLESS Hulk. Dude, do you know who MINDLESS Hulk is? No? Another quote, then.

"First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #299

Identity Basis: The body of the Savage Hulk with all personas supressed.

Strength: This incarnation can lift in excess of 100 tons. This incarnation's strength increased as his anger increased.
Intelligence: Animal level intelligence, basic survival instinct

Transformation: This incarnation did not transform."

Pay very, very close attention to the very last line. Close attention. Here, I'll type it again:

Transformation: THIS INCARNATION DID NOT TRANSFORM." This means...um...NO BRUCE BANNER?

The Professor. NO BRUCE BANNER? Wait now, don't take MY word for it (since, according to YOU and Venomfan, I know little):

"First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #377

Identity Basis: This is the idealized version of Bruce where he has all the strength of the Savage Hulk and the intelligence of Bruce Banner but none of the emotional baggage, awkwardness or shyness.

Strength: This incarnation can lift over 100 tons.
Intelligence: Genius

Transformation: This version does not transform."

Whoa now. WAIT! Hoooold up. Read that last line again? One more time:

Transformation: This version does not transform."

Ack! Wait a minute - again, NO BRUCE BANNER to turn into? Hello?

I DID mention three versions, correct? Mindless, Professor, and - GREY HULK:

"First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk #1

Also Known As: Joe Fixit

Identity Basis: This incarnation represents the personality that can do all the not so nice things that Bruce was to unsure of to do himself. Tricky, manipulative, shows little thought of others make up some of his traits.

Strength: This incarnation can lift approximately 75 tons. This incarnation does possess the "madder he gets, the stronger he gets" ability but at a much slower rate since this incarnation has some level of intelligence and reasoning and would not "lose control" as easy as the Savage Hulk incarnation.
Intelligence: Normal

Transformation: Initially, Bruce would transform into the Grey Hulk at night and then back at dawn. This was subconscious due to the fact that Bruce was ashamed of the dark, not very nice thoughts the Grey Hulk represented and would only let him out at night, in the dark, where he wouldn't be seen. >>>>>Later, the change was due to will power."<<<<<

Um, notice the last line with the nice and neat little arrows? HE CHANGES ACCORDING TO WHIMSY. If he does NOT want to revert to Bruce Banner, he does NOT. Did I now TOTALLY - and LOGICALLY - refute your assertation that Venom could "force Hulk to calm down and turn back into Bruce Banner?"

Since I do not debate logically and all. And, um, AGAIN, just what would Hulk be doing while Venom attempts to "bond" with him? Playing pattycake? Apparently YOU do not know how quick Hulk is. Hulk would EASILY backhand Venom from Virginia to Iraq. Hulk beat THOR UNCONSCIOUS. *sigh* You don't get it. LoL @ even mentioning Venom in the same breath.

Re: The Punisher - once AGAIN, it was written by Garth Ennis as a PARODY because he HATES SUPERHEROES. Get it now? "Oh what the hell, I will write a WHAT IF PUNISHER KILLED THE MARVEL UNIVERSE." They DO have realistic takes on alternate realities as caused by a "what if" in Marvel - for example, "What If Phoenix Had Lived." Am I making myself perfectly clear?

LoL @ Venom's symbiote "converting to data streams." Someone has been watching waaaay too much Fear.com 😆

Venomfan, shut up. I said Ghostrider cannot be harmed by CONVENTIONAL means. Being the aspiring Marvel writer that you are, look up the term and get back to me. Squirting webbing into Juggernaut's eyes... 😂

CONTACT SOMEONE FROM MARVEL!!! you dont deserve those luaghing pics. go ahead and contact them they say...........didnt you READ the issue?

you would say somthin like no but my buddies at the comic book shop*

then MARVEL says maybe you should read the comics instead of mkaing up your own little senarios

LoL, you are 12, aren't you? 😉

oh here we go again, you have no argument so you make stupid comments. good one DAWG

Originally posted by venomfan
oh here we go again, you have no argument so you make stupid comments. good one DAWG

Hmm, this was not a "stupid comment" - DAWG?

CONTACT SOMEONE FROM MARVEL!!! you dont deserve those luaghing pics. go ahead and contact them they say...........didnt you READ the issue?

"Because Marvel printed it so it means it HAPPENED!!" isn't a stupid comment, DAWG - considering both Marvel AND DC have admitted to making mistakes (Grant Morrison on Orion, John Byrne on Darkseid, DC Comics on the Blue Superman, Marvel Comics on The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe)?

Have you not heard of casting a comic book character OUT OF CHARACTER?

You are 12, aren't you? 😉 And WAY out of your league too, I might add.

Juggernaut = way more powerful than Venom could ever dream of being. End of story.

not to mention im going to a art college,that would imply that i aspire to be one of the many artist working for marvel, not a writer.
unlike you i enjoy the marvel comics and dont blast them when somthing happens that"is immposible".
i would like to be a writer but i would rather start my own series if i wrote the comics it would kill the intreset for the character(i know not all writers feel this way but i would) you on the other hand only seem to want three people dominating marvel, of course Juggernuat seems invincible like Edilion said the whole point is seeing heros triumph.

so to end this all ready meaningless discusion i have said Venom could not beat Juggernuat in a fight, if you locked them in a box venom and ghostrider would lose. but in the open juggernuat would let down hulk

for the last time you find ANY proof that marvel comics made a mistake on Venom:the madness and i will say you have room for a argument, until then you are not even in a league all you can do is whine about me being 12(wich is very lame by the way, good job). YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE EITHER CAN "DEFEAT" venom we all know there stronger thanks for pointing it out a million times

here it is strait from the marvel website, the OFFICIAL MARVEL BIO PAGE
venom(i rounded down both venom and juggernuat if it was over half)
on a scale of 0-7
intelligence 2.5
strength 4.5
speed 4
durability 1
agility 4
reflexes 4
fighting skills 2.5
overall 22.5
Juggernuat
intellegence 2.5
strength 7
speed 1
durability 7
agility 1
reflexes 1
fighting skills 2.5
overall 22
see, statisticly better, and he won in the comics END DISSCUSION

Well lets see venom won in the comics, his stats are better, two people agree with venomfan. It looks to me like never is wrong, but hulk could still kick his ass.....j/k i think that would be an awsome fight.

unless it's Onslaught and Galactus or something.... no one is gonna be able to take out Hulk and Juggernaut at the same time.

Originally posted by SuperNova
Once Again I decided to make a topic about Venom and Ghostrider, because they seem to be the most... Evil heores. Venom kills when he has too, Ghostrider kills when he has too, and they both look super evil. so, anyways, Heres another with them. Venom has already taken out Juggy, so I think it wouldnt take long for him to do it again, Especially if Ghostrider helped, Once they were done with Juggy, they would prolly go for the hulk, I think Ghost would wrap his chain around the hulk and keep him occupied, after all, with his motorcycle the hulk can not mess with him. Hed be going around in circles and crap, and hulky would be going after him, then Venom would send out some symbiote and make it wrap around hulks head, and he would supphocate and crap... And hed faint. Alright, now what do you think??? 💃

Are you on crack?

Venom never took out juggy. Infact venom got beaten up the entire issue . In the end juggy got bored of beating seven shades of crap out of venom and left.

Originally posted by Drizzle
unless it's Onslaught and Galactus or something.... no one is gonna be able to take out Hulk and Juggernaut at the same time.

I love how everyone tea bags on the idea that Galacticus is anything more than a chump. I've never read a comic where he did anything other than lose. He has great power, but never uses it in a fight. Besides the fact that he dwarfs the planet earth, his only real attribute is that he bestows the power cosmic on his heralds...who ultimately leave him because he's a loser in purple armor and an ugly helmet. And i'm completely convinced that Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) could take out Hulk and Juggy because he can do anything in the marvel universe. He'd just make sum bull sh*t gun that would be able to immobilize them or incapacitate them (though i know that's extremely difficult to do). Not saying Reed is a great fighter, but he's a brilliant scientist.

I'll concede that Venom and Ghost wouldn't be able to defeat untransformable Hulk, but I don't think it'd take much for Venom and Ghost to just get Hulk to just leave, out of Boardem, by manuvering out of his way and staying hidden then.

It would then give Venom and Ghost all the time in the world to beat up on Juggy. Ghosts Hell fire (a mystical fire, which means the capbabliity to affect Juggy) can KILL OR INSTILL FEAR, PAIN, AND REMORSE to anyone Ghost hits them with granted they have a human soul, which Juggy qualifies at.

Venom's ability to control the Symbiote on a molecular level and transporting it through data streams has more realism to it than Juggy's Gem which magically gives him "invincibility".

As I said earlier it was considered a good possibility that using the correct sound and/or radio frequencies have the possibilty of passing through Juggy's force field (coming from a comic with Juggy being knocked out from a Furtistic Robot employing that attack). I'm not saying it's a sure thing that Venom could enter through Juggy's force field, but the evidence point to things being able to get through, and on the molecular level.

If Juggy's Force field does not drain Juggy's energy it simply means he's too stupid to keep it up constently during battle which means Venom and Ghost would just have to make their surgical strikes at the right time. It is stated in Juggy's bio that he doesn't use his powers effectivly.

Pppfffffttt Juggy would waste venom and GR with ease. The PENANCE stare isn't going to work. Juggy had the sheer mental strength to fight off cytorrak himself in the 8th day. So what if Nimrod effeted juggy with his sonic attack. Juggy has whupped venom ass and would easily whup GR's ass. GR couldn't even fight off the brood