Last King of Gondor?

In the book, as well as the film, the Mountain Men swore an oath to the "Last King of Gondor", Isildur and only Aragorn (Isildur's heir) can call upon them.
Now i'm confused. In the Appendices, it says that Eanur was the last King of Gondor (or was he not a King but a Chieftan?). IN which case, my question is, why is Isildur considered the last King of Gondor and why can only Aragorn call upon them as Isildur had other heirs. I have a hypothesis but not sure if it's right:
Isildur was the last King of Gondor and the Men of the west whereas all the other kings after him were only kings of a bit of Gondor.

Thanks for any help, this has been bothering me for aaages!

__________________

well the movie says that isildur was the last king, but the books are fact and in them eanur is the last king of gondor (the chieftains were from arnor). any of the heirs could have called apon them but i dont beleive that the oathbreakers were all that well known about. elronds sons came to aragorn to inform him of that path (although i am sure he knew of them from his years living in rivendale).

Indeed, Isildur wasn't the last King of Gondor. There were in fact at least 31 more kings after Isildur until the true last king, King Earnur, was lost in Minas Morgul.

I think they just said in the movie that Isildur was the last king so that there will be more dramatic effect. And the movie already showed Isildur in FOTR so most of the audience can relate to him; they already have an idea what his role was in the 2nd Age, what he did, his importance to what is happening right now etc. so that's maybe why they decided to imply that Aragorn is his direct descendant since we can relate to him as well. Having more descendants after Isildur before Aragorn will confuse the average movie-goers. But of course, we as the hardcore readers know the truth. 😎 😉

It's for dramatic effect, just like what they did when Frodo left for Valinor. They said it was the "last ship", but it wasn't in fact the last yet. The last ship sailed at least several decades after Frodo, etc. have gone.
They just did that to make it seem like Sam will never ever see Frodo again when in fact all of us know that he followed several years later.

So about Isildur as the last king, it's either the filmmakers made a mistake or they deliberately decided to do that. 🙂

They make several things like that in the movie... Legolas tells the others a lot of nonsense... he was not the last king, he was at that time rather the king of Arnor than of Gondor (and the dead werent green!!)...

Aragorn also calls the Argonath "kings of old" which is translated "altvorderenkönige"... this was the name for the time about 4000 before Isildur and Anárion (being portrayed by the argonath) 😄

Originally posted by Exa
Legolas tells the others a lot of nonsense...

ROTFLMAO... 😆 I don't hate Legolas or anything but that just cracked me up..LOL... 😆

TECHNICALLY SPEAKING... as far as people who swore an oath to Isuldur are concerned...

Earnur was NOT a King of Gondor. The ascension to the throne taken by the first King of Gondor, through the line of Anarion amd Menledil, is technically NOT legal. Even less legal was the ascent of Earnil, 2000 years later, who was simply the best person Gondor could find for the job at the time (the main line having been lost)

Isildur was not King of Gondor, or even Arnor, he was King of Gondor AND Arnor- it was a single throne. That the two Kingdoms became split after his death was not his intent. Isildur deputised his sons to run each Kingdom but the Kingship, JOINT, was his.

Therefore the actual crown was through the North Kingdom, Arnor, and the descendants from Isildur and Valandil (Isildur's surviving son) ShOULd have been Kings of Gondor as well- the exact reason Arvedui pressed his claim in the 20th century TA, but Gondor erroneously refused him.

As a descendant of those people, Aragorn is the true King of Gondor, not just because the line the Stewards replaced is extinct, but also because that line was never fully legal in the first place.

Isildur was only the ruler of Arnor whilst Elendil still lived- once Elendil died, Isildur became High King of the two Kingdoms together.

Therefore, anyone who swore an oath to Isildur would be concerned by HIS line only, down to Aragorn. The 'Kings' of Gondor that were there would mean nothing to them.

BTW, does the movie really say Isildur is the Last King? I cannot remember, but I know the Extended TTT scenes talk of the North Kingdom briefly.

Yep, Legolas said,

"One that is cursed. Long ago the Men of the Mountain swore an oath to the last King of Gondor, to come to his aid, to fight. But when the time came, when Gondor's need was dire, they fled. And so Isildur cursed them, never to rest until they had fulfilled their oath."

Thanks.

It is possible that a small reference like that was overlooked, rather than it being a deliberate change.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Earnur was NOT a King of Gondor.

(...) not just because the line the Stewards replaced is extinct, but also because that line was never fully legal in the first place.

Isildur was only the ruler of Arnor whilst Elendil still lived- once Elendil died, Isildur became High King of the two Kingdoms together.[/B]

He was a king, though he was not a direct ascendant of Ondoher (who died together with his sons Artamir and Faramir because of the great plague, while his daughter Fíriel married Arvedui of Arnor - another reason why Arvedui claimed the throne of Gondor), the last "real king", BUT he was an ascendant of Elendil, being the son of Earnil son of Siriondil son of Calimmacil son of Arciryas son of Telumehtar, and Telumehtar WAS a king of Gondor and ascendant of Elendil.

The line of the Stewards was also somehow related to the royal family, some of the first (not yet a Ruling Steward) was I think somehow related to a king.

Isildur was King over Gondor together with his father AND his brother Anárion, though they both died in the battle of Dagorlad. Afterwards, Isildur crowned Anárions son Meneldil a King of Gondor.

Sorry, Exa, but Tolkien is very clear on this. There should not have been any seperate Kings of Arnor and Gondor. The true Kings of both Realms are the ones descended from Valandil. The line that took the throne of Gondor were NOT technically legitimate.

They became legitimate simply by time and tradition, but to men who swore an oath to Isildur, they would NOT consider that line in any way relevant- onlky the Arnorian line.

Regardless of the bloodlines of those who called themselves King, the true Kings of Gondor for the ENTIRE Third Age were Isildur's descendants in Arnor. The joint crown was theirs.

Isildur was not going North to take up the rule of Arnor. He was returning north because that was where the seat of power was for the ruler of BOTH Kingdoms- but, to quote Tolkien, "Elendil... was accounted the High King of ALL the lands of the Dunadain. While Elendil still lived, the conjoint rule to the South was committed to his sons, but when Elendil fell, Isildur departed to take up the High Kingship of his father, and committed the rule in the South in like manner to his brother. HE DID NOT RELINQUISH HIS ROYALTY IN GONDOR, nor intend that the realm of Elendil should be divided forever."

So you see, there NEVER should have been a seperate King of Gondor, only someone the King of Gondor AND Arnor- that being Isildur- left behind to look after things. When Isildur died, the person he left in Gondor ASSUMED the title of King. That assumption was NOT literally legitimate.

And so hence, that entire line would be disregarded by the Men of the Mountains.

So I am afraid your objections are incorrect, Exa. I said Earnur was not literally a King, and indeed, literally he was not, he was part of a line that erroneously assumed Kingship.

Isildur was NOT King over Gondor with his father, he, along with his brother, ran Gondor FOR the King. Gondor did not have its own King.

He did not crown Meneldil King. He left Meneldil in Gondor to run things for him. Isildur himself, as clearly stated by Tolkien, was still Gondor's King. The line descends through him.

They are listed as King in the chronology for simplicity's sake and because they called themselves Kings but the situation above is exactly as Tolkien describes it- this being an error, and the true line being in Arnor, all the way down to Aragorn.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, Exa, but Tolkien is very clear on this. There should not have been any seperate Kings of Arnor and Gondor. The true Kings of both Realms are the ones descended from Valandil. The line that took the throne of Gondor were NOT technically legitimate.

(...)

So I am afraid your objections are incorrect, Exa. I said Earnur was not literally a King, and indeed, literally he was not, he was part of a line that erroneously assumed Kingship.

Thanks for clearing that up, I never really realized that before.
Where does Tolkien write more about that besides the Appendices and the HMEXII?
But even if they were not legitimate, they still were kings and ruled as kings, and they were probably more successful than those in Arnor where the Realm was parted again into Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhudaur and eventually was totally destroyed.

I ignored the fact with the line of Gondor being obviously no "real" kings because in my eyes even if they claim kingship erroneously they still WERE called kings and thats enough for making them kings to me.

mmm so who is the last king of Gondor

Originally posted by ash007
mmm so who is the last king of Gondor

If you mean who did the Dead Army swear alleigance to, apparenly that was Isildur and Legolas could be right from a certain point of view as pointed out Meneldil did not have official claim to the throne, Isildur left the running of the southern kingdom whilst he retired to Arnor the traditional seat of power. Isildur never gave the rule of Gondor to Meneldil he was merley a "caretaker" per se. When Isildur was set upon by orcs and killed along with his three eldest sons the rule of Arnor passed on to his youngest son Valandil, at only eleven years old the turn of events allowed Meneldil to pry power for himself and thus become a king in his own right rather than a caretaker. Up until Aragorn II of Isildurs line, Isildur was the only true King of Gondor to have held the throne the rest of the lineage can be accused of taking the throne falsley.