5 Istari

Originally posted by Firithlotwen
curunir is saruman
mithrandir is gandalf
olorin was another but i don't know if it's gandalf?
radagast is another
and i'm missing one or two... ?

Maiar is a name for all the "lower" gods or perhaps you might say angels of middleearth; in the beginning when the world was created, Ilúvatar the One sent a part of his Children to Middle-earth, called "Ainur" or "Holy Ones"; some of them, the most mighty ones, were the Valar or "Powers" of Middle-earth, the others the Maiar.
They are immortal and have no real shape.
Some of the Maiar - Five in number - were sent to middle-earth to help men in the fight against Sauron, they were later called Istari, the Knowing Ones.
Other Maiar are as Kit said for example Sauron, the Balrog, or also the mother of Shelob (she was called Ungoliant).

Originally posted by Lord_Andres
wasint there a book called The New Shadow? maybe he wanted to write more about the two blue wizards there

Exactly what I said Exa.

I said Id say exactly what you said as you already said everything that is to be said

i thought ungoliant eated the other "spiders" and ended eating itself, and never had any "children"... this is a questions that bugs me a lot, how certain we are that shelob descends from ungoliant?

It IS certain, Tolkien says so (if we take Tolkiens word for being correct).

Where does Tolkien write that she ate other spiders?
Dun remember that... but in the Silmarillion it is said that in the end she devoured herself in her hunger, though Tolkien started a poem about Earendil where he wanted to describe him kill Ungoliant.
And - Ungoliant had many, many children.

yes, you're right, now that i recall.........

it's been a while since i read the silmarillion, maybe i should read it once more to freshen things up! 😉

thanks exa, you're really a human tolkien-dictionary!!!

If i remember from the book, the Silmarillion Ilúvatar created the Ainur the Holy ones in the beginning before aught else was made. They became the Valar-Those with Power-when they entered Eä the material universe. The Maiar are those Ainur of lesser degree. Which includes Sauron, the Istari, Ungoliant and her kind, and all those creatures that are not of Arda (Earth). From this, I believe wholeheartedly that all spiritual beings whether good of evil were at one time the Ainur, some were in less stature than others.

Yes and singing, the Ainur created the world 😄 at least a shadow of the world and Ilú made it real.

What is the difference between a spiritual being and a non-spiritual being`?

A spiritual being are those that came from the thoughts of Eru-the one-before the world was made. Non spiritual are those that came in the time of Arda within Eä: plants and animals, Quendi and the Atani, Naugrims and Perian. With the exeption of the Quendi and the Atani, the Valar did most of the work in Arda. Maybe non spiritual is wrong terminology?

erm exa gandalf-staff elf

wasnt it

gandalf - wander elf

im SURE it was that would also explain how Gan and thar(K) could both mean staff

Its staff-elf - originally the name of a dwarf in the Elder Edda.
Tolkien first planned to take the name for Thorin and call Gandalf "Bladorthin" instead - which later became the name of a very mysterious king near Dorwinion. Bladorthin means Wanderer of the Wide Lands or something like that, but Gandalf comes from
Gand = staff, especially a quite magical one, and Alf = Elf

Tharkûn is a dwarvish word, Gandalf is Old Norse

And there goes my minute of spotlight right out the window as Exa comes galloping on Asfaloth. *sighs*

Originally posted by Firithlotwen
i thought ungoliant eated the other "spiders" and ended eating itself, and never had any "children"... this is a questions that bugs me a lot, how certain we are that shelob descends from ungoliant?

a good start is that Shelobs stinger pierces through mithril !!!

"...bugs me alot..." ha ha ha, what a delicious pun! 😆
💃 💃 💃 💃

Originally posted by Bar-en-Danwedh
a good start is that Shelobs stinger pierces through mithril !!!

"...bugs me alot..." ha ha ha, what a delicious pun! 😆
💃 💃 💃 💃

Um....actually Shelob CAN'T pierce through Mithril...nothing can....

frodo is wearing the mithril coat when Shelob stings him.
mirhril stops normal weapons, yes, but Shelob's basically the daughter of a god!

In the books Shelob struck Frodo in the back of the head/neck but in the movie, it goes against the rule of Mithril and the sting could not've pierced Mithril, so I'm assuming that the sting just about missed the Mithril.

it's been a while since i read the books but that does sound familiar...

but ungoliant kicked melkors ass, so i imagine that Shelob, while born to a deminished Ungoliant, still would be increadibly powerfull. especially because her mother sucked the life out of the two trees of valianor, and it took an army of balrogs to chase beat her off.

i'd like to belive that Shelob could do it, maybe not her kids in Mirkwood, but she kicks ass.

in the book frodo got stung in the neck, the back i think

Originally posted by Bar-en-Danwedh

but ungoliant kicked melkors ass

maybe im forgetting but where does it say that?