The Individual vs The Society

Is society more important than the individual?
Or Is the individual superior to the society?

Determinism does include the desires of the individual, it simply says the desires are caused. So, I can say I desire a system which allows the desires of the individual to be expressed without interference from the desires of society (except where it infringes on the desires of other individuals). The fact that the desires I have are caused by previous events in my life and also events before my life that contributed to my genetic structure doesn't prevent me from speaking of free choice in this sense. Free choice for the individual simply means the ability to peruse individual desires as opposed to having the desires of others forced on...

Comments...

According to Star Trek:

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." -- Captain Picard.

"The good of the many outweighs the good of the few/one". Capt. Kirk.

Not saying I agree. Just good quotes. 😛

good reference you made.^

I think it all has to start with Mutany!

Sometimes I think the whole idea of society just.. doesn't work. I believe that people should work together towards common goals that will benefit everyone equally. The fact is, that is never going to happen. Once in a while, you see an incredible act of teamwork. This, however, is very uncommon, and when it does happen, you can bet that there are people out there who didn't like it. People have differing opinions. That's why I often prefer to be alone with my thoughts instead of battling stuff out with other people.

That's also why I've lost faith in the American system of democracy.

That is unfortunate...For there is no other system out there that can truly compare to America, even in England which most of our democracy is somewhat base on their ideals and principals. Even though it isn't always perfect would you rather it were say...Russia? or even in part if not all in the Middle East? We may yet one day achieve the perfect society where all parties are happy and content but at what price do we pay for such a society? Without the individual a society cannot exist and vice a versa. In order to work towards a common goal the individual has to work within the society where the society then repays that individual to live in peace and harmony with so many other individuals. Society in of itself is not a bad thing whether it's a poor neighbourhood or if it's rich, it's the individual that lives within in that more or less decides how that society becomes whether working with others or alone.

society for me, I dont see how any one person could become more important than society as a whole

🙂..well it's pretty simple fire. As an individual, you'll always cosider yourself and your loved ones more important than a bunch of people you've never met.
Even though you understand that sometimes you have to sacrifice for that greater good, for the good of the others, that is still in part true.

i've heard a very interesting thing some time ago, and i memorised it.
Some studies showed that the human being, as a species, is not meant to be in a community of over 65 individuals.
So how can a society of millions work perfectly?
..it can't.

buggie, you got some nerve posting star trek quotes in a star wars orientated forum 😉

Originally posted by feanor
In order to work towards a common goal the individual has to work within the society where the society then repays that individual to live in eace and harmony with so many other individuals.

Originally posted by yerssot
buggie, you got some nerve posting star trek quotes in a star wars orientated forum 😉

I couldn't help myself. I've shown incredible restraint all this time! It's just that I know a lot more Star Trek than Star Wars. But I like Star Wars - I do!! ✅

I’m all for society. Would be damn lonely without it 😄
The needs of the one does not outweigh the need of the many? Hurm, good question. That depends on who “the many” are.
In 1600 Giordani Bruno was arrested, tortured and burned by the Inquisition for saying the stars were other suns. The “need of the many” for the stars to be fixed on some sphere separating us from Heaven was a real killer.

For a modern democratic society to work (such as democracies in Europe, the US, as far as I know is a Republic??), we all have to adhere to the rules and laws of said society. So if I want to go out and buy a gun, and that’s illegal, well, then I can’t. My need for a gun doesn’t outweigh the need for Danish Society to keep murders to a minimum.

So I’d say you need to approach the question in a dialectic manner. It depends on “the one” and it depends on “the many”, on “where”, and on “when”.

Some studies showed that the human being, as a species, is not meant to be in a community of over 65 individuals.

Well...imagine that u probably don't live in a comunity of milions of people, but rather in a small comunity comprised of u'r friends and people u see every day (boss, parents &stuff) so they rarely go over 60-100 people anyway....the greater society is comprised of thousands of these mini-societies that every one person can trace around themselves..

neh..that's different. You still interact with a lot of strangers every day.
Besides...the competion for survival 9now that sounds wild 🙂 ) is greater when in such large numbers, because ...not everyone is needed.
not all have a part in the system....hence unemployment, as an example

Originally posted by julibug
But I like Star Wars - I do!! ✅

dexx there is a difference between considering someone more special and actualy making someone more special than society

In traditional societies (in which culture is always bonded) the purpose of an individual is to learn, produce, and raise a family. Take a look at the Inuit tribes (Eskimos) as an example of what I'm talking about. They depend on each and every member of their culture to hunt, produce, and survive in their natural habitat. What if one of the members decides to leave his/her duties to purse a desired individualism? What if that member is a key hunter or an excellent craftman? Wouldn't the society of the Inuit be less skillful without that member? Certainly it does. Here in this case the individual is as important as the skill her/his possess.

In certain societies the indivual does not get the independence some of us have. That is because society always depend on the skills that each indivual possess. Can the individual be independent of a society that needs her/his skill? Maybe, in our large cities and towns, but not in small communities or societies like the Inuit. Sometimes personal choices can affect the community or society we come from.

A society helps the individual, because in the end, society benefits from the individual. And the individual contributes to society, because in the end, it helps the individual.

Surely it depends on the individual. Your normal every day Joe is less important than society, but heads of state, leaders etc may be deemed far more important than certain aspects of society.