Originally posted by The_Inevitable
Ok then. Well what if I want to marry a dog? Or 3 women? Are you not going to let me? It's discrimination!
You cant marry a dog in the same way you cant marry a car, or a rock or a child or someone who was asleep, they cant consent to it.
if you want to marry 3 women you should become a Muslim, Muslim men can have 4 wives as long as they can prove they love them all & can provide for them all equally.
Since everyone is so quick to scream 'discrimination', the same is happening to Christians all over the world for their religious beliefs. So it goes both ways.
Sure people can have feelings for someone of the same sex as others would for someone of the opposite sex. The question is whether it is right or not.
As for this argument, there really isn't much of one when you take God out of it. If you take God out of everything, then you're left with everyone becoming their own gods, each determining themselves what is right and wrong, acceptable and not acceptable. In that case, what right does one person have to say to another that what they're doing is wrong, whether it's marrying someone of the same sex, or murdering someone, or stealing, etc.
Originally posted by Fire
right or not??? WTFwho defines what is right and what is not???
and god has nothing to do with marriage why should he.
since when does religion define ethics?and there is a serious difference between saying that stealing or murder is wrong and saying that same sex marriages are wrong
dang this religion rule but i'm gonna disobey it anyway...
God defines what i right and wrong, and he gave us a decision to choose one or the other, in God's eyes homosexuality is a sin, and sins are very pleasing to God, God also designed marraige to be between a man and a woman, that's why I argue because i know that same sex marriages are wrong.
Moral ethics come from the Bible
what's the difference in saying that stealing a murdering are wrong, but homosexuality is just ok?
There both sins in God's eyes
Sorry about the "religious" info
Originally posted by Fire
right or not??? WTFwho defines what is right and what is not???
and god has nothing to do with marriage why should he.
since when does religion define ethics?and there is a serious difference between saying that stealing or murder is wrong and saying that same sex marriages are wrong
Exactly my point, you take God out of it then who is to say what is right and wrong? Like you said, who defines it? We're asking the same question.
Why do you say God has nothing to do with marriage? I'm interested in hearing your point of view on this.
If you don't have any religious principles for moral structure, then you're left to define your own ethics.
I was using extreme scenarios in my last comment. My point is, without God, we're left to follow our own ethics. In that case, what right does one person have over another to say their ethics are the right ones? One person may not think it's wrong to steal, and another does say it's wrong. Again it comes down to your question of who defines it, and by what authority over the other individual?
Originally posted by tazman
Exactly my point, you take God out of it then who is to say what is right and wrong? Like you said, who defines it? We're asking the same question.
Why do you say God has nothing to do with marriage? I'm interested in hearing your point of view on this.
If you don't have any religious principles for moral structure, then you're left to define your own ethics.I was using extreme scenarios in my last comment. My point is, without God, we're left to follow our own ethics. In that case, what right does one person have over another to say their ethics are the right ones? One person may not think it's wrong to steal, and another does say it's wrong. Again it comes down to your question of who defines it, and by what authority over the other individual?
who defines ethics: ethics are based on common sense most of the time.
ususaly the majority of ppl agree with the moral rules made in a society, like the forbidding of murder which you will find in almost any group of people no matter how small. same goes for stealing and so forth.
in modern day to define what is wrong and what is right the politicians (who actualy define our ethics these days) look at what will harm other ppl, the freedom of one person ends where that of another begins.
actions that hurt or damage other ppl in a way are usualy found unethical. some ethical debates are a lot harder and are there for discussed by groups of ppl who are usualy elected by the public to do so.
Ergo in a democracy, atleast in belgium, the majority of ppl decides what is considered wrong and what is considered right.
i am very glad that religion is almost completely ruled out because I don't see why we should force ethics on ppl without atleast giving them a more solid reason than: "because god wants it that way"
as for marriage without god, why the hell should marriage be about religion, for me marriage has NOTHING to do with religion it is a commitment I want to make to Storm. I am proud of this commitment and I would like the world to know this. what god things of it is something I really do not care about.
Tazman and the Force need to grow up. You're brainwashed little sheep that can't think for yourselves. You're not playing an RPG, you're living a human life, which means you can't count on a book to call the shots. Ugh, why bother... clearly you children aren't going to reject your programming now. Bigoted, brainwashed punks. Is it called "discrimination" when you're simply pointing out the obvious-- that people in a free society don't live life according to an ancient book of historical fiction? You're slaves, and that's what you deserve, since you're the ones letting it happen.
Originally posted by Fire
who defines ethics: ethics are based on common sense most of the time.
ususaly the majority of ppl agree with the moral rules made in a society, like the forbidding of murder which you will find in almost any group of people no matter how small. same goes for stealing and so forth.
i am very glad that religion is almost completely ruled out because I don't see why we should force ethics on ppl without atleast giving them a more solid reason than: "because god wants it that way"
as for marriage without god, why the hell should marriage be about religion, for me marriage has NOTHING to do with religion it is a commitment I want to make to Storm. I am proud of this commitment and I would like the world to know this. what god things of it is something I really do not care about.
What is the source of common sense?
Where did people get the idea that murder, stealing, etc was wrong?
Who established the idea of having a group of people govern over the majority? What makes the majority agree what's right and wrong? Who says harming people is wrong? What makes it wrong? If it's common sense, see first question.
As far as offering a more solid reason than: "because God wants it that way." If you read why God established his 'Laws' in the Bible, you'd see that it's for our benefit, not for some power trip or to annoy us.
Sorry you don't care what God thinks of your wanting to marry Storm, but congrats on the future occasion. How long have you known Storm?
You don't have any better answer for those questions than anyone else. You have no proof of any of that. The Bible is not proof of anything, it is simply a book written long before any current witnesses could have lived. Grow up.
There is no logical reason why gays shouldn't marry, barring specific personal cases. Some people shouldn't be married, but that's not based on which sex with which they choose to get it on. The human species is not going to die out. This planet is over-crowded as it is. 10% of people are gay. They are no threat to you, so stop being a baby. Only a pansy-ass is afraid of gays being their equals-- and self-hating closet-cases in denial. Hide behind your dusty book. See how good that makes you feel when someday, you just might have a spark of empathy come on you and you realize that you're in favor of depriving others of a comfort and right to which you have free access. You just keep thinking you're a good person because "God said so." You're not using logic, and you're not using compassion. You're a pawn of cowardly, panicky, hateful people. You know, I really hate wearing wool--it's too hot and scratchy-- but you seem just right in it.
Originally posted by Herr Logan
Tazman and the Force need to grow up. You're brainwashed little sheep that can't think for yourselves. You're not playing an RPG, you're living a human life, which means you can't count on a book to call the shots. Ugh, why bother... clearly you children aren't going to reject your programming now. Bigoted, brainwashed punks. Is it called "discrimination" when you're simply pointing out the obvious-- that people in a free society don't live life according to an ancient book of historical fiction? You're slaves, and that's what you deserve, since you're the ones letting it happen.
I understand where your views are coming from, being that I used to think that way about Christians also. Since then, I've made the choice to find out what it was all about and made my decision based upon the two experiences. Brainwashed? No my friend, I made the choice to believe. Bigoted? Nope, it's not for me to decide who's wrong or right. Punk? I hope I never gave that impression, if I did I apologize.
But what you're not seeing is that I'm actually making an argument for your view. Cause what I'm saying is, you take the aspect of God out of it, then there is no legitimate agrument as to why it's wrong. Then you're left with peoples oppinions and you can argue those till we're all blue in the face. So without God, there is nothing wrong with it.
Society is pulling away from that 'ancient book' as you call it. But still most of the laws we have today come from that 'ancient book'.
And if I'm a slave to an ancient book that teaches you shouldn't kill, steal, dishonor your parents, to love others, help the poor, etc. then yeah that's what I am, a slave. I have nothing against you or Fire personally, I hope you see that. 😎
Originally posted by Herr Logan
Tazman and the Force need to grow up. You're brainwashed little sheep that can't think for yourselves. You're not playing an RPG, you're living a human life, which means you can't count on a book to call the shots. Ugh, why bother... clearly you children aren't going to reject your programming now. Bigoted, brainwashed punks. Is it called "discrimination" when you're simply pointing out the obvious-- that people in a free society don't live life according to an ancient book of historical fiction? You're slaves, and that's what you deserve, since you're the ones letting it happen.
well then i'm a slave for Christ, i was going to say pretty much the same thing like tazman was 👆
Oooh, you are good. You're the real deal, ain'tcha? You're a pure-bred cultist zombie, not just a half-assed church-going *******. You did what the heavy-weight sheep do: when responding to hatred, you send back love. You forgive, you complement, you ameliorate. Now I feel awfully special.
The last time this happened, the freaks were at my door soliciting their nonsense, and it terrified me. The eerie grins, the clone-ish look of the two zombies, the meaningless ideas they were ready to unload on me. I slammed the door the first time without hearing them speak word one, because I was tired, unprepared for such evil, and I wanted to get back to my video game. The next week, these scumbags came back. Soliciting in my building is illegal, and I told them so. One of them denied that he was soliciting and I cut him off once more to promise him that if they ever came to my home again, there would be consequences. As I closed the door, one of the zombies said "I love you", and he wasn't talking to his fellow cult member. I felt funny for hours afterward, and I was actually a little disappointed that they didn't come back. I guess I just don't get enough satisfaction ridding the apartment of cockroaches, I needed something bigger.
Anyway, the point is, you're a slave. I don't kill, I don't steal, and I didn't read your damn scripture. As for the other commandments or lessons or whatever you mentioned, that's slave talk. Why would you love everyone indiscriminately? Does your love really mean a damn thing if it's free for all to experience. You're a slut. Your affection and compassion are meaningless because you don't have standards. You've done the lazy thing and given up the responsibility for judgment (of your own decisions and other people) to God. Lazy slut slave sheep. Help the poor? You mean, give your money to strangers who claim they will give it to the needy? Child. You assume all poor people deserve help? You assume all rich people need guidance? You assume all middle-class people are assholes? What the hell can an opinion from someone like you matter? Don't dishonor your parents? Does that apply to children of pedophiles? Oh, that's right, they will be rewarded for their suffering in the sweet hereafter if they just turn the other cheek. Blind obedience is for the weak. I thought meekness wasn't supposed to be weakness, or so I heard on the Bible channel one boring afternoon. But every time I talk to one of you people, you prove that wrong.
"Take out God, and all you have is people's opinions." Welcome to second grade, sport! That's how it is. Might makes right in the end. It would be nice if the mighty were nice, but as long as the church has power, all that niceness will be fake. Do you assume "might makes right" is a heartless way to look at the world? If you do, grow up. It actually supports the golden rule-- the only thing worth taking to heart from the Bible. Of course, the Bible isn't the source of that, and neither is religious. Humans can reason and use logic. Cats, dogs, and even sheep (not you, the smart kind) can do this, too, to an extent. That's a newsflash for those uneducated enough to believe that humans aren't part of the animal kingdom. A dog learns not to do certain things if you punish him for it, and he learns how to gain your favor. My cat doesn't go in the bathroom if he knows I'm around, because I wield a mighty spray bottle. Humans, too, can learn to be good to the people with which they interact and not attract their ire. Is this making sense to you, yet, Bible-boy? You increase your chances of receiving goodness if you give it, both because some people already believe in reciprocity and because others will mimic their fellow humans in behavior. You increase your chances of receiving badness by putting it out their. The Golden Rule is a survival tactic that needs no God to take credit for it. It's evolution. Oh, wait, you probably don't believe in that. If that's true, it's the explanation for why you haven't evolved. The Golden Rule is common sense is logic is the way we came to have the laws we have. Religion is not the source--it's merely a dirty coat on it. Religion exploits people who believe in the Golden Rule.
I've met moral atheists and evil Christians. I've met good-intentioned Christians as well, but I never respected them. You're a lost cause. You're condemning yourself to reading one book for guidance and moving in the herd to the beat of the shepherd. I have to wash my hands now just thinking about your moral platitudes.