FAQ-Thread

Started by Exa3 pages
Originally posted by sauron
...

😂 😂 youre right spikey looks rather female 😄

Yes, there are, because orcs could multiply by themselves and as they're a mockery of the elves and there ARE female elves, Melkor would surely also make female orcs...

What was the Shadow over Númenor?

the shadow over numenor

i dont know

something is telling me sauron...and the whole valar thing but...😕

Here is something that I have found regarding this question...

When the Realm of Númenor was established at the beginning of the Second Age, the Dúnedain were given a lifespan three times as long as those of men in Middle-earth.

Númenor's first king, Elros Tar-Minyatur, and his descendants were granted even longer lives which averaged 400 years each in the early centuries (Unfinished Tales 218). Such longevity creates special problems, including overpopulation and a resultant strain on resources. In a royal family these problems are compounded by the need to hold and maintain power. Inevitably, jealousies and rivalries amongst children, grandchildren, and more distant descendants arise as the sovereign ages. In J.R.R. Tolkien's lifetime the British Royal Family experienced two such periods, first in the 1890s when Queen Victoria withheld power from her adult son and grandson, and again in the 1920s and 1930s when King George V's heir, denied responsibilities, indulged in a life of pleasure which eventually led to his abdication. Tolkien's House of Elros avoided many of the pitfalls long reigns can entail in its earlier centuries of power. In the later millennia of the Second Age Númenor's royal family, like much of the rest of its culture, lost its early wisdom and declined into disaster.

When Elros Tar-Minyatur died after a reign of 410 years in Second Age 442 he left a living son, grandson, and great-grandson in the direct line of succession. Any rivalries which had or might have developed between the three generations were quickly dispelled when Elros' son Vardamir chose to pass on the scepter to his own son Amandil, then aged 250 years. This avoided a short reign of 29 years (Vardamir died in 471) and enabled Tar-Amandil and his son Elendil to enjoy the positions of King and Heir in their prime. For the next 2400 years succeeding Kings and Queens of Númenor took care to avoid having more than two generations of heirs at one time. This was accomplished first by delaying marriage and the birth of children until at least the middle of their second centuries, then by the policy of resigning the scepter some years before choosing to depart. Not only did this policy help allay family tensions, it was vital to the stability of the nation as a whole. In absolute monarchies and other systems dependent on the rule of one person, too frequent changes of leadership can have a deleterious effect, as can be seen, for example, in the later centuries of the Roman Empire.

This wise and self-sacrificing policy, which meant delaying marriage and parenthood until well after reaching adulthood at about age 50 (Lost Road 71), was abandoned after the Shadow fell on Númenor. Tar-Atanamir the Great refused to lay down the scepter or his life and reigned until his death in 2221. Although Atanamir lived 421 years, he was the last King to survive beyond his 400th year. Succeeding monarchs followed his example, and his grandson Tar-Telemmaitë (reigned 2386-2526), became the first King since Elros to see the birth of a great-grandchild in the direct line of succession. The next five monarchs also saw great-grandchildren even as their life spans diminished, indicating that their marriages and childbearing years were now beginning far earlier than had been the custom.

Thus as the Shadow deepened over Númenor the number of young men and women in the House of Elros began to increase. Probably the nobility and the common people of Númenor followed the example of their royal family, so that the population grew faster than before and the average age dropped. These younger Númenóreans, anxious over their declining life expectancies, were impatient and ambitious with aspirations for which their parents would have had little sympathy and much suspicion. Therefore it is not surprising that this period was one of great raids and expeditions against Middle-earth, ostensibly to fight Sauron but also a safety valve to accommodate the aggressions of an increasingly youthful people and provide a haven for the excess population. It is even less remarkable that these young people would reject the Elven tongues as languages of the past irrelevant to their own concerns.

The first Númenórean King to live less than 300 years was Tar-Ardamin, who died in 2899. He was also the first King to sire an heir before reaching the age of 100. It should come as no surprise that Ardamin's son was the infamous Ar-Adûnakhôr, the first King to take his title in Adûnaic, who outlawed the use of the Elven tongues (Unfinished Tales 222). Adûnakhôr was the last King to see the birth of great-grandchildren, a result of the continuing decline in royal life spans. The age at which monarchs saw the birth of their heirs declined as well, and Ar-Gimilzôr, great-grandson of Ar-Adûnakhôr, was only 75 when his eldest son was born. Ironically this child became Tar-Palantir, himself a rebel against what had become the Númenórean social norm. His short lived attempt to restore the Elven tongues and the old Númenórean religion was opposed by his brother Gimilkhâd, who fathered a son at age 74 and died at age 199. Tar-Palantir was said to have "married late" and fathered a daughter at age 82, yet another indication of lowered life expectancy (Unfinished Tales 224). Tar-Palantir died aged 220, a slightly longer life than his father's, but his daughter Míriel was forced into marriage by her cousin Pharazôn at the age of 118. Recognizing that Ar-Pharazôn had already outlived his father by two years at the time of his invasion of the Undying Lands in 3319 allows us to grasp the desperation felt by the last King of Númenor and his people. Even as their land grew wealthier and more powerful they felt their lives foreshortened and their youth limited to ever smaller fractions. The extant chronicles do not reveal whether Ar-Pharazôn and Miriel had children, but it seems likely that there was an Heir around whom factions of young Númenóreans, undoubtedly encouraged by Sauron, had formed. Fortunately for the Dúnedain, not all the Númenóreans had surrendered to the fear of death and the culture of youth at the time of the Downfall of 3319.

-cont-

The Lords of Andúnië, a cadet branch of the House of Elros, had remained Faithful to the ancient traditions of Númenor and to the Elven tongues. Until the publication of Volume XII of The History of Middle-earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth, little information was available on which to base theories on the lifespan of the Lords of Andúnië and their descendants, the Kings of Gondor and Arnor. Chapter VII of The Peoples of Middle-earth , entitled "The Heirs of Elendil", has some vital material. While any information from The History of Middle-earth should be used with care, being incomplete and often contradictory, the material from Chapter VII agrees with and expands upon Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings, only differing in some names and spellings. In Chapter VII Elendil's birth date is 3119, so that he was 200 years old at the time of the Downfall. A note in Chapter VI of The Peoples of Middle-earth (page 170) states that Elendil was "very long lived" and that the average life of a Númenórean was about 210 years, while the life of a member of the royal house was about 350 years. These figures cannot apply to Númenor's last centuries, however. No monarch had reached the age of 350 since the death of the third ruling Queen Tar-Vanimeldë in 2637, and Ar-Pharazôn could not have expected to live much beyond his two-hundredth year. Ordinary Númenóreans would have had even briefer lives in 3319. It is unclear whether Elendil alone was unusually long lived or if longevity was a trait of the Faithful in general.

Elendil's sons Isildur and Anárion were born in 3209 and 3219. They evidently married in their eighties, for Isildur's eldest son, called Elendur in "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in Unfinished Tales 271-287 but Kiryandil in Chapter VII, was born in 3299 in Númenor.

Isildur's next two sons Aratan and Ciryon (Eärnur and Veändur in Chapter VII) were born in Gondor in 3339 and 3379, while his youngest son Valandil was born in Imladris in 3430. Anárion had at least four children, but only the name of the fourth child Meneldil, born 3318, the last man born in Númenor, is known today (Unfinished Tales 279). Therefore Anárion took approximately twenty to to thirty years to produce four children, while Isildur required 131 years to do the same. There appear to be three possible explanations for this: that either Tolkien overlooked the implications of these dates; or that Isildur was so active in opposing the machinations of Sauron in Númenor and then in establishing the Kingdoms in Exile in Middle-earth that he had little time for domestic affairs; or that Elendil's eldest son was more mindful of the ancient customs of the House of Elros than was the younger son. There is some evidence for the third hypothesis in an analysis of Isildur and Anárion's descendants in Arnor and Gondor.

The War of the Last Alliance was a multi-generational affair, with Elendil, Isildur and Anárion, and their sons taking part. With the end of the Battle of the Gladden Fields in Third Age 2, only two of Elendil's grandsons were left alive, Meneldil of Gondor and Valandil of Arnor. Meneldil was over 120 years old and apparently in the prime of life since he lived another 160 years. Valandil was a child by any reckoning, having been born in Imladris in 3430. Perhaps Isildur, recognizing that a terrible war was about to begin, had fathered his last child after fleeing Gondor in order to ensure that an Heir of Elendil would survive. Valandil inherited the rule of Arnor in Third Age 2 but did not actually become King until 10 (III 366), when he would have been about 21. Apparently the Númenórean trait of not fully maturing until about age 50 was not transferred to the Dúnedain in Middle-earth. If that theory is correct, it is interesting to observe that, despite their earlier maturing, the Kings of Arnor and later Arthedain maintained the old Númenórean custom of waiting many years before producing an heir. As a result of this custom the 22 Northern Kings after Valandil's 239 year rule had an average reign of 78.5 years, an average lifespan of 188 years (including four Kings who were killed), and fathered an heir at the average age of 85. It may be significant that every one of the Kings of Arnor and Arthedain from Valandil to Malvegil (died 1349), reached 200 years, but none did so afterwards. This may indicate nothing more than the increasing perilousness of being a King fighting Angmar, but it is nonetheless remarkable that the drop in life expectancy began when the Kings began using the prefix aran , ar(a), in their names. Signifying High King, the same prefix was used by the later Kings of Númenor. The fifteen Chieftains of the Dúnedain from Aranarth to Arathorn II, despite rougher and more dangerous lives, had an average life span of 145.5 years and produced heirs in their sixties and seventies except for the last two, whose fathers were in their fifties. As a result of this delay in producing children only one Northern King or Chieftain saw a great-grandson in direct line, King Arantar, grandson of Valandil. Even though their kingdom was lost and they were reduced to poverty, the House of Isildur could nevertheless take pride in their preservation of so much of ancient custom. In Gondor the Heirs of Anárion had very different experiences.

From Meneldil to Eärnur the thirty Kings of Gondor (excluding Castamir the Usurper) lived to an average age of 225, well outliving their northern cousins even when the eight Southern Kings who died in battle and Telemnar, who died of Plague after a two year reign, are factored in.

Perhaps a healthier climate made a longer lifespan attainable. However, Gondor's Kings had shorter reigns than did the North Kingdom's, averaging 68 years, and were younger when fathering heirs, doing so at an average age of 70. Also, the House of Anárion was less fortunate in preserving the line of succession, the direct descent being broken by two childless Kings, the deaths of King Telemnar and his family from Plague, and the deaths of King Ondoher and his sons in battle. Since royal children were produced at an earlier age than in Arnor or Númenor, all but eight of the Kings of Gondor saw great-grandsons born and Tarondor, the King with the longest reign (162 years) had a great-great-grandson at his death in 1798.

With several heirs as well as younger brothers and cousins, internecine strife in Gondor's palaces was inevitable. Gondor suffered the ruinous Kin-Strife from 1432 to 1448, a civil war between rival branches of the royal family which spawned several otherconflicts over the next two centuries. It may be that other family conflicts caused the childlessness of Falastur and Narmacil I, and that youthful great-grandchildren often chafed under the authority of aged monarchs, creating a perpetual tension which would have interfered with national governance and defense.

Undoubtedly some of these young Gondorian princelings wished that the custom of Númenórean kings voluntarily departing life had been transferred to Middle-earth. Thus the House of Anárion was more prosperous and indeed longer-lived than the House of Isildur, but it maintained itself while sacrificing some of the ancient customs of Elros' line. To their northern cousins the family rivalries of Anárion's line would have seemed due punishment for an abandonment of principle.

After the capture of King Eärnur by the Ringwraiths at the age of 72 in 2002 the House of Anárion became extinct and Gondor was ruled by the House of Húrin or the Stewards for the next thousand years. A family of Númenórean descent but without the special longevity granted the Line of Elros, the Stewards' average lifespan was only 111 years and, though they had children at far younger ages than had the Kings, their families were usually small. When Turin I had several children it was considered "a thing already rare and remarkable among the nobles of Gondor" (Peoples of Middle-earth 204). Small families and declining lifespans also seem to have become commonplace among Gondor's general population. Thus by the War of the Ring Minas Tirith was half empty (III 24).v
The end of the Third Age and the return of King Elessar revived not only the monarchy but the nations of Gondor and Arnor as well. Acknowledged as mature at 20 by Elrond, Elessar had not reached "full stature of body and mind" until about age 49, an indication of his revived Númenórean heritage. Nearly ninety when he became King, Elessar then married Queen Arwen Undómiel and produced a son Eldarion and at least two daughters during his 120 year reign. After reaching the age of 210 Elessar exercised the privilege of his ancestors and freely laid down his life (III 337-344). His people's life spans were enhanced as well. Steward Faramir lived 120 years, longer than any Steward since Belecthor II in 2872, and it can be assumed that other Gondorians and Arnorians enjoyed the same longevity. Whether this gift extended far beyond the days of Elessar is doubtful. Tolkien once wrote that he envisioned that Eldarion and his successors would become "just kings and governors," (Letters 344) with little of their forefather's great gifts. Regardless of whether the actual gift of long life was temporary or not, the Dúnedain certainly benefited as much from Elessar's revival of the ancient traditions as they did from the rebirth of the monarchy.

From yet another perspective

The First Age ended with the Great Battle, in which the Host of Valinor broke Thangorodrim and overthrew Morgoth. Then most of the Noldor returned into the Far West and dwelt in Eressëa within sight of Valinor; and many of the Sindar went over Sea also. The Second Age ended with the first overthrow of Sauron, servant of Morgoth. and the taking of the One Ring. The Third Age came to its end in the War of the Ring; but the Fourth Age was not held to have begun until Master Elrond departed, and the time was come for the dominion of Men and the decline of all other 'speaking-peoples' in Middle-earth. In the Fourth Age the earlier ages were often called the Elder Days; but that name was properly given only to the days before the casting out of Morgoth. The histories of that time are not recorded here.

TheSecond Age These were the dark years for Men of Middle-earth. but the years of the glory of Númenor. Of events in Middle-earth the records are few and brief, and their dates are often uncertain. In the beginning of this age many of the High Elves still remained. Most of these dwelt in Lindon west of the Ered Luin; but before the building of the Barad-dûr many of the Sindar passed eastward. and some established realms in the forests far away. where their people were mostly Silvan Elves. Thranduil. king in the north of Greenwood the Great, was one of these. In Lindon north of the Lune dwelt Gil-galad, last heir of the kings of the Noldor in exile. He was acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West. In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women. She was sister of Finrod Felagund, Friend-of-Men, once king of Nargothrond, who gave his life to save Beren son of Barahir. Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria. The Noldor were great craftsmen and less unfriendly to the Dwarves than the Sindar; but the friendship that grew up between the people of Durin and the Elven-smiths of Eregion was the closest that there has ever been between the two races. Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Fëanor.

Year

1 Foundation of the Grey Havens, and of Lindon.

32 The Edain reach Númenor.

c. 40 Many Dwarves leaving their old cities in Ered Luin go to Moria and swell its numbers.

442 Death of Elros Tar-Minyatur.

c. 500 Sauron begins to stir again in Middle-earth.

548 Birth in Númenor of Silmariën.

600 The first ships of the Númenoreans appear off the coasts.

750 Eregion founded by the Noldor.

c. 1000 Sauron, alarmed by the growing power of the Númenoreans, chooses Mordor as a land to make into a stronghold. He begins the building of Barad-dûr.

1075 Tar-Ancalimë becomes the first Ruling Queen of Númenor.

1200 Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-galad refuses to treat with him; but the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans begin to make permanent havens.

c. 1500 The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power.

c. 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.

c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dûr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.

1693 War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden.

1695 Sauron's forces invade Eriador. Gil-galad sends Elrond to Eregion.

1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.

1699 Sauron overruns Eriador.

1700 Tar-Minastir sends a great navy from Númenor to Lindon. Sauron is defeated.

1701 Sauron is driven out of Eriador. The Westlands have peace for a long while.

c. 1800 From about this time onward the Númenoreans begin to establish dominions on the coasts. Sauron extends his power eastwards. The shadow falls on Númenor.

2251 Tar-Atanamir takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Númenoreans begins. About this time the Nazgûl or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear.

2280 Umbar is made into a great fortress of Númenor.

2350 Pelargir is built. It becomes the chief haven of the Faithful Númenoreans.

2899 Ar-Adûnakhôr takes the sceptre.

3175 Repentance of Tar-Palantir. Civil war in Númenor.

3255 Ar-Pharazôn the Golden seizes the sceptre.

3261 Ar-Pharazôn sets sail and lands at Umbar.

3262 Sauron is taken as prisoner to Númenor;

3262-3310 Sauron seduces the King and corrupts the Númenoreans.

3310 Ar-Pharazôn begins the building of the Great Armament.

3319 Ar-Pharazôn assails Valinor. Downfall of Númenor. Elendil and his sons escape.

3320 Foundations of the Realms in Exile: Arnor and Gondor. The Stones are divided (II, 54). Sauron returns to Mordor.

3429 Sauron attacks Gondor, takes Minas Ithil and burns the White Tree. Isildur escapes down Anduin and goes to Elendil in the North. Anárion defends Minas Anor and Osgiliath.

3430 The Last Alliance of Elves and Men is formed.

3431 Gil-galad and Elendil march east to Imladris.

3434 The host of the Alliance crosses the Misty Mountains. Battle of Dagorlad and defeat of Sauron. Siege of Barad-dûr begins.

3440 Anárion slain.

3441 Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring. Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths go into the shadows. The Second Age ends.

The Third Age These were the fading years of the Eldar. For long they were at peace wielding the Three Rings while Sauron slept and the One Ring was lost; but they attempted nothing new, living in memory of the past. The Dwarves hid them-selves in deep places, guarding their hoards; but when evil began to stir again and dragons reappeared, one by one their ancient treasures were plundered, and they became a wandering people. Moria for long remained secure, but its numbers dwindled until many of its vast mansions became dark and empty. The wisdom and the life-span of the Númenoreans also waned as they became mingled with lesser Men. When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth. It was afterwards said that they came out of the Far West and were messengers sent to contest the power of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him; but they were forbidden to match his power with power, or to seek to dominate Elves or Men by force and fear. They came therefore in the shape of Men. though they were never young and aged only slowly. and they had many powers of mind and hand. They revealed their true names to few, but used such names as were given to them. The two highest of this order (of whom it is said there were five) were called by the Eldar Curunír, 'the Man of Skill', and Mithrandir, 'the Grey Pilgrim'. but by Men in the North Saruman and Gandalf. Curunír journeyed often into the East, but dwelt at last in Isengard. Mithrandir was closest in friendship with the Eldar, and wandered mostly in the West, and never made for himself any lasting abode. Throughout the Third Age the guardianship of the Three Rings was known only to those who possessed them. But at the end it became known that they had been held at first by the three greatest of the Eldar: Gil-galad. Galadriel and Círdan. Gil-galad before he died gave his ring to Elrond; Círdan later surrendered his to Mithrandir. For Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return. Take this ring, Master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you.'

And thats all I have to say about that !

shadowy blue, eat your heart out!

😆

... now you have to ask the next question 😛

How did the war between Dwarves and Orcs come about ?

the war between the dwarves and the orcs came about as the result of an attempt to destroy the orcs of the misty mountians by a race of free peoples. it was brought about by the orcsafter they murdered the dwarves king, thror, the dwarves of durin had been driven from erebor by smaug and werent having a good time, so all their anger and hatred was unleashed when they heard the news

the war ended in the valley of azinulbizar (dimril dale) many from both armies fell, the battle was won for the dwarves as a seperate army from the iron hills arrived just in time

whos idea were the ents, and what riginally did that person have in mind for them (i know the answer to this but i seemed a good question)

The idea comes from Yavanna - she thinks it's unfair when the kelvar (animals) can run away from enemies or defend themselves while the olvar (plants) arent able to do anything like that, so she asks for guardians especially for the trees whom she loved most

Which Vala was most like Melkor?

is this like trivia or are we actually asking questions?

Just asking questions you either want answered....or think would be a good question for newbies to read and learn

the valar most like melkor was aule
they both liked creating things and enjoyed people showing appreciation for their work, of course melkors thoughs soon turned to hatred to aules works as they were better than his (wow this reminds me of something) so he destroyed them

what, in the song what goes with aragorns name, does the line all that 'not all that glitters is gold' mean

i know this one too but hey,....its the only way i will detect the right answer

bump 😐

... it's All that is gold does not glitter and refers to Aragorn's life as a ranger though he is the heir of the kings of both western kingdoms of Men, Arnor and Gondor (as the daughter of one of the last direct royal descendants of Anárion, Fíriel daughter of Ondoher, wedded the last king of the Arnorean realm, Arvedui, whose descendant Aragorn is); he is a king ("gold"😉 or could be one, but lives hidden in the forest instead of "glittering" as in trying to appear mightier or more important than others.

The other lines say something similar - Not all those who wander are lost, he knows what he is doing though it might appear like he has no idea where he's going, [/i]The old that is strong does not wither | Deep roots are not reached by the frost[/i] referring to the Númenórean blood and the survival of the Dúnedain, From the ashes a fire shall be woken | A light from the shadows shall spring ... Fire, light? I thought he wasn't glittering 🙄 ... Renewed shall be blade that was broken | The crownless again shall be king ~ selfexplaining ✅

Why is Arwen often compared to Lúthiën Tinúviël, but also called Undómiël ("Eveningstar"😉?

😱 Your helping me bump 😄

Now *looks for answer*

I have a q: if Balrogs are Maia and maia can't be killed, then how does Ecthelion kill Gothmog? It doesn't make much sense

Because a balrog once detached from its body cant create a new one.....

Originally posted by Agent Elrond
I have a q: if Balrogs are Maia and maia can't be killed, then how does Ecthelion kill Gothmog? It doesn't make much sense

As Sauron said, the thing that is destroyed is rather the body of the Balrog, while the "soul" probably has to flee to the Halls of Mandos; without a body, a Balrog is kinda powerless.

Other maiar, like Sauron, already showed that it takes a Maia ages to recover from such a physical death - if they can.