The Dagor Dagorath

Started by Thorondor2 pages

The Dagor Dagorath

ok i'm a little fuzzy on this can someone give me a HUGELY detailed explanation 馃槃 would be great thanks 馃檪

tolkien never wrote a hugely detailed explantation
i would tell you all i know
but exa told me
and the way she tells it is amazing because she talks about the sun being drowned and stars cast down and its just wow

*calls exa* ooooh eeexxxxxaaaa!

Hugely detailed? Ok wait a moment
first some links 馃槢

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28126

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25758

Detailed description is difficult as there is no real text about the Dagor Dag(o)rath, only bits and pieces spread of several different books
*starts writing*

i said Dagorath

yeah
it can be either dagorath or dagrath....
same way that melkor can also be melko

anyway i would visit the second link,
although exa is typing away as we speak answering this question so theres really no need 馃槢

Originally posted by Thorondor
i said Dag[b]orath [/B]

In the Unfinished Tales Tolkien also writes Dagorath, but the grammatically correct form would be Dagrath cuz the word comes from *dakr and the o was only added when a lot of final consonants became syllabic in Sindarin... it also remains the same in plural (while other vowels are changed) ... and in "Dagrath" a new final syllable appears so that the gr can stay together

Originally posted by sauron
*calls exa* ooooh eeexxxxxaaaa!

The problem is that I am also confuzzlied about it 馃槢
but here the story as far as I remember it

The Dagor Dagrath
Melkor has been banned to the Void, he's getting bored, so he starts messing around - darkens the sky, destroys stars, throws comets [cf chant of the barrowwights], makes the Moon become jealous of the Sun and hunt it and stuff like that... and after some time, Melkor destroys the Sun and drowns it. Now the leader of the Sun is the maiden Arien, beloved by Fionwe [later "Eonwe"], and she dies afair., and Fionwe is totally angry and persuades the Valar to start a war against Melkor again.
Now in the meantime the lies Melkor had seeded into the hearts of Mortals "bear rich fruit" and loads of them support Melkor whereas the Elves have faded and are very weak. On Fionwe's side, T煤rin Turambar fights who has become immortal (and the dragons of Melkor "shall curse his sword"馃槈, as well as Tulkas' son (who in the LT was responsible for Melkor being imprisoned in the Void) (or was it Tulkas himself? ttr). A battle is mentioned, on the fields of the heath of Valinor, where Melkor's serpents and ogres and orcs and demons fight against the Valar's elves and the few men who remained faithful
But Melkor cannot be defeated, so in the end Fionwe destroys the whole world in order to kill Melkor

In Beleg's "whetting spell" it is said that he uses the name of "Celeg Aithorn that shall cleave that world" - maybe that's connected to the other story, Celeg Aithorn could be a lightning or (as the other weapons named are mostly knives and swords) some special sword, I don't think the name occurs anywhere else.

After the world is destroyed, the Second Music of the Ainur shall be sung and [probably] a new world begins, the world of Men. This Second Music is also named in the Silmarillion ("Yet of old the Valar declared to the Elves in Valinor that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Ainur; whereas Il煤vatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World鈥檚 End, and Melkor has not discovered it"馃槈
--- Elves probably didn't survive the ruin of the world as they were bound to it ("And they knew that the fate of Men was not bounded by the round path of the World, nor destined for the straight path. For the round is crooked and has no end but no escape; and the straight is true, but has an end within the World, and that is the fate of the Elves. But the fate of Men, they said, is neither round nor ended, and is not within the World."馃槈 as is discussed in the Athrabeth.

Other quotes maybe connected to the End of the World -
"Death is their fate, the gift of Il煤vatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his Shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope."

"Thus everything dies, but only Mortals die forever, the others watch and wait eternally in the Shadows"

fi/eonwe was kinda silly i yhink
he destroyed the world to kill melkor but killed everyone else too 馃槢

great explanation exa 馃槢

but how did he destroy the world 馃槕

Dagor Dagorath=End of the World

Originally posted by Thorondor
but how did he destroy the world 馃槕

I have ... absolutely ... no idea 馃槃
But I guess it has something to do with this strange Celeg Aithorn

Dagor Dagrath = "Battle of Battles" 馃槈

he cleaved it

so....cut it in half lol 馃槢
god knows

hehe pun intended

So is it Dagor Dagorath or Dagor Dagrath? Because I've been saying Dagorath...XD

i say dagorath
exa says dagrath
i say potato
she says poh tate ohs! boil em mash em stick em in a stew

its all good

Originally posted by sauron
i say dagorath
exa says dagrath
i say potato
she says poh tate ohs! boil em mash em stick em in a stew

its all good

馃槅 馃槅

Originally posted by Exa
In the Unfinished Tales Tolkien also writes Dagorath, but the grammatically correct form would be Dagrath cuz the word comes from *dakr and the o was only added when a lot of final consonants became syllabic in Sindarin... it also remains the same in plural (while other vowels are changed) ... and in "Dagrath" a new final syllable appears so that the gr can stay together

馃槈

i believe Christopher Tolkien is lookin' to hire Exa on his next project of middle earth....

thats bull, well all know that chris tolkien is indeed exa

whoah-am i gay?

according to the encyclopedia of Arda:

The prophesied final battle between the forces of light and darkess, called the Last Battle, in which Morgoth will return and suffer his final and ultimate defeat.

Prophecy of the Last Battle

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgment in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West.

"When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the timeless void ; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon.

But E盲rendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonw毛, and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the Black Sword of Turin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Hurin and all Men be avenged.

Thereafter shall Earth be broken and remade, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for E盲rendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then F毛anor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palurien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the mountains of Valinor shall be leveled, so that the light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Iluvatar be fulfilled concerning them.

But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Turin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.

Thus everything dies

but only mortals die forever

the others watch and wait

eternally in the shadows.

*Duuuddee!!..so awesome..I had chills but....*sniff* cry

i'll read that tomorrow lol im to tired just now 馃槢