Fantastic 4 or X-Men?

He has the power to alter reality at will. He is so powerful that even the celestials are afraid of him.

oh sweet. what issues is he in

well he is basically the most powerful mutant ever...eventually he will theorhetically end up being the Galactus of the universe after this one...he was wanted by Onslought because he has the power to psionically create matter! thus by using Franklin Onslought was able to create another Sun which was about to destroy the Earth right before he was beaten...another example of this power was when he created another entire universe to place the heroes who sacrificed themselves to beat Onslought...this display made even the celestials fear him, thus they were after him for a little bit....he is a really powerful pyrokenetic and telekenetic...this power was mostly demonstrated by his teenage self (Psi-Lord) who doesnt exist anymore and was apparently from a different timeline...additionally when he is around, he can make the FF vastly stronger...for example when the FF fought the entire captain britain corps...they looked like they were losing so Franklin Boosted their powers....Reed could stretch into outer space, the Thing gained Hulk like Strength....invisible woman got even more powerful....and the Torch's flame got so strong he had to fly into the atmosphere and go Nova...needless to say, they kicked the sh** out of the hundreds of captain britians....still he is just a kid...and he doesnt use his powers for destructionor fighting much....i think Roma has his powers turned off right now, otherwise it wouldnt be right for him to stay on earth with his family...but as u can see...anyone powerful enough to get the attention of the Celestials, and create an entire universe, is pretty strong and would definitely balance out the presence of Phoenix....although i think if the invisible woman wanted to kill her she could.

Well can any sort of concrete list of potential team Members be sumed up for either side?

I think any list of x-men would be fair....the only reason i mentioned Franklin was because JeanGrey Phoenix is not a regular character and her powers r cosmic in nature and not really so much mutant...I just mention Franklin so people would see my point...I dont think it matters who the x-men have...it would always be a close one between the FF and x-men...however I dont see the FF ever losing...they ger down everyonce and a while, kicked around by some people like Hyperstorm or Onslought, or Galactus, or the dreaming Celestial...but after all the crap they end up coming out on top all beat up or broken physically and emotionally...like someone else said, the x-men r used to losing physically and morally, i still think they r awesome and i love reading them.

and who r these people that think Phoenix would have no problem beating the FF...the FF would not need their whole roster (Powerman, Medusa, Crystal, She-Hulk, Antman) to beat Phoenix and the rest of the x-men...that is ignorance...those characters were rarely a deciding factor, more like....umm we technically need at least 4 people to still be called the fantastic four...the only back up people that were ever any real use were Psi-Lord, Nathaniel Richards and Kristoff...any of them could easily find a way to neutralize phoenix by the way. Phoenix is really powerful, really inexperienced compared to any of the FF, and doesnt do anything on her own. the only person in the FF Phoenix would be able to dispatch is the Thing...Invisible woman and the Torch could stop her if they wanted to use the most deadly aspects of their powers...Reed would easily know how to neutralize her...as for the rest of the x-men, they r not powerful at all in terms of the FF...Storm, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Psylocke(deceased), Marrow, Beast, Angel, Nightcrawler, Polaris, Cable, Bishop, Jubilee, Jean Grey, Iceman, etc...these guys r all relatively vulnerable and would be dead if they went up against any member of the FF....some people r not so vulnerable: Joseph, X-man, Phoenix, Xavier....these guys r not always on the team but would be the only characters that could really put up a fight against the FF....how about their strong characters?...Jugernaut, Colossus(Deceased), Rogue, Strong Guy, Maggot, Warpath...how long would any of these guys last against the Thing...Juggernaut would have been a match until he was drastically downgraded...now i dont think so...

hmm... if professor x was to fight it all out... wouldn't he be dangerous too? thing vs. rogue, human torch vs. storm, invisible woman vs. jean grey, reed richards vs. professor x.... im not sure.

yea las time human torch went against storm he accidentally almost killed her...thus the whole FF vs. X-men....where Doctor Doom saved Storm's arm using science and sorcery

Collosus and Juggernaut are very capable of going against the Thing and especialy if they both went after him Ben would get wasted

Really Phoenix is the easyest thing in the universe to kill. Kill Jeans body phoneix dies again. Telekenitics don't phase the invisable womens shields. That totals phoneixs power. All that is left is defending against her telepathic assult. Reed could develop a cerebro like amplifer that would deflect psi energy and simultainosly drain Phoneix and Jeans brain. Then kill her and phoneix will have to rise again. They killed dark phoneix, they can kill the good one to.
Phoneix is only the ace you make of her. Only way x-men win is if they have free reign and have doom behind them. If doom had to imprison them, that would be their defeat. If they willingly work with Doom, they could topple even Reed Richards.

Originally posted by RSSR
Jean Grey, aka Phoenix, is very much included in this discussion. Besides, its up in the air if she's dead. Still, Rachel powered by the Phoenix Force can handle the all of the Fantastic Four by herself.

According to you she is very much included.

What the hell is the point of included a being in the poll that could eliminate both teams at once?

use that lump 3ft above your ass to figure that out.

Phoenix SHOULD NOT be part of this arguement. Especially when the X-men already have a number advantage.

You say that phoenix would have no trouble defeating the FF by herself. But when jean was powered by the phoenix force and had support of the x-men, she still got killed by magneto.

did Phoenix and Magneto actually battle? or did Magneto kill her with a cheapshot?

Kind of a cheap shot. But It doesnt matter. The point is that if she was meant to be an all powerful being, she would have been able to predict it and protect herself. If magneto can kill her with a cheap shot, reed would be smart enough to set a trap for her as welll.

True, True.......... I like the FF in this one.......

point is shes dead right? good then lets use the surviving members cuase that makes for a better disscusion than like said.

Pheonix can do it by herself has been coverd in plenty of threads. how about somthing new eh?

yah...it sounds like those people who voted X-Men need Phoenix as some sort of crutch to help them with their arguement.

Just use all the damn X-men from the animated series....it's easiest that way.

pretty much they have a slew of members

Originally posted by eleveninches
You say that phoenix would have no trouble defeating the FF by herself. But when jean was powered by the phoenix force and had support of the x-men, she still got killed by magneto.

LoL, this is hardly a fair argument 11. Jean was JUST learning about the Phoenix Force (recall her saying in #150 that she was adjusting to her abilities) so it is not quite accurate for anyone to say that a fully powered Magneto could stomp Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force.

For comparative purposes, remember Jean Grey in "What If" #27 (even though it is a "What If" her POWER LEVELS were the same) when she bumped into Galactus?

She is not and never was omniscient, and she surely cannot predict the future.

Reed, set a trap for her? LoL, not when she can read/manipulate/shut down his mind via telepathy.

i think the people in this thread are underestimating Phoenix's powers... but maybe thats just me.