Omega
The question you pose is both fundamentally and paradoxically flawed. The very things that all critics, non-fans, and alienated fans have said need to be changed in order to make Revolutions a "good" movie, are all rooted in the first two movies, and the movie themes, as well as the fact that they are the very things that the same people use against movies that use them.
Example:
1) Neo and Trinity live.
Then what? You leave an open ending to a closed story. Neo and Trinity would presumably get married, or for those of you who's played ETM may know, there is another that could come into play for Trinity. Neo doesn't quite belong, and he is worshiped like a God by those who live in Zion - which has surely alienated him. There is no practicality for this scenario unless you still get warm fuzzy feelings from Disney's version of Cinderella.
2) A literalistic approach, as opposed to a surrealistic, is taken to explain the movies idiosyncrasies. Aside of destroying any fantastical and romantic illusions created through the surrealistic approach, and the fact that such a literal approach is a very dry way of writing (Try reading Hemingway - blah!), the third movie would almost have to turn out to be a dream that started in the first movie, and thus destroy it's entire point of existence while flushing any and all political, social, and philosophical/theological statements down the toilet.
3) Morpheus plays a larger roll. How? Neo is, and always was, the focus of the movies - would it come to light that Morpheus is just another program? And that leads into....
4) MWAM. If MWAM existed then the paradoxical situation arises where one can never reach reality and one can never be free. It would be a very depressing movie that would be almost impossible to end, continually repeating itself as if you placed two mirrors facing each other and stared into infinity.
To change any aspect of the third and final Matrix involves changing key plot points and themes in the first two movies to accommodate for such a change, which, in turn, also opens the door to a never ending string of Matrix movies - destroying the originality, the novelty, and the appeal of the trilogy. An infinite possibility for new matrix movies would turn the trilogy into a system of movie making, and the movies all carry strong undertones of anti-conformity.
I do not think that it would be possible to change the movie in any way to accommodate those who did not like the movies. The paradoxical aspect of your question is that:
If any of these aspects were changed, and those who did not like it still could not find any appeal to it, would those of us who liked it, still have loved it so? I know that I wouldn't have felt as satisfied had it ended much of any other way, and I do not feel that I am alone in this thought. ❌
VenomVA> Ah, there's nothing wrong with a happy ending from time to time. But Marix is cyberpunk and Gibson-inspired, I agree. Those stories never have a happy ending, nor a complete and full one.
Trinity's death still makes me cry, too. That, the utter disbelief the first time I saw Revolutions, they actually went ahead and DID a cyberpunk ending was amazing!
Perhaps it's because especially Revolutions goes very MUCH anime on the audience. This entire Trainman, superbraw, Neo/Smith connection is not for people who're not familiar with anime.
Metamorphisis> Well said.
PPL LISTEN! DA ANSWERS TO DA MOVIE IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YALL FACES NEO HAD TO DIE! NEO WASNT MEANT TO SAVE ZION THATS WHY THA ORACLE TOLD HIM THAT WEN THERES A BEGGINING THERES AN END SHE WAS TALKIN ABOUT NEO REMEMBER IN THA FIRST MATRIX WEN MORPHEUS SAYS THAT "WEN THA MATRIX WAS FIRST BUILT there was a man born inside that had the ability to change what he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was this man who freed the first of us and taught us the truth - When he died, the Oracle prophesied his return and envisioned that his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix." It seems likely that this "man born inside" is simply the previous One, fulfilling his last duty to the cycle, before it begins anew.SOO JUST LIKE I SAID NEO HAD TO DIE
SiCn@StyD1>Thank you for that "enthusiastic" explanation.
I like the way it ended. It made sense, it fit. The human-machine was over, Smith dead, trinity dead, everyone happy, many people who reject the matrix freed. Neo had no reason to live. If smith hadnt killed him then he probably would have killed himself for trinity. No things in life last forever.
Omega, glad to see you have returned. In the final analysis the movie is just that a movie. Yes I was one of the people whom was disappointed with the final movie but I would still buy it on DVD because I did not hate the whole movie just wished somethings were included especially more on Seraph..
The good thing since I have known you is that, you are willing to see the next persons point of view even if you do not agree with that person.
I just wish more people would bear that in mind when they have debates with others.
The three Matrix films are the best films I've ever seen. I for one cannot understand all the praise for the LOTR movies - the first was good, but after that they just got louder and bigger. Totally Hollywood.
You need to watch these films more than once, and read a bit about them in order to truly appreciate them. The first time I saw Reloaded I thought it was terrible, but I had arranged beforehand to see it more than once with different groups of friends. The more I watched it, the more it aroused my curiosity, so I looked around on the internet for answers, eventually settling at www.matrixfans.net. Everything was explained there and I soon realised just how much symbolism and philosophy the Wachowskis had used in the film, now I would say it's my favourite of all three films.
I wasn't too hyped about Revolutions because I was expecting not to like it at first, which I didn't. However, like Reloaded, I came to appreciate it over time and with more viewings. If you look at the symbolism you find the ending is even more beautiful than you may have thought previously - Neo didn't die, he's at one with the Source and the Matrix, fulfilling the ultimate Buddhist goal. He is the true one at the very end, he's finally reached nirvana. The last shot of the new dawn is in fact a shot of Neo in all his final glory.
Icansee> Oh, I haven’t really left. I’m just very busy, so my moderation duties are sometimes reduced to simply checking people behave…
Of course Revolutions is JUST a movie. But Shakespeare’s collected works are JUST books 😉
It’s like Rhama says, when he explains that love is just a word. It’s the bond that the word implies that matters. So, too, are the experiences and interpretations that watching Revolutions create in each and every one of us.
A feeling of disappointment doesn’t go away, just because I, say, encourages you to watch Reloaded/Revolutions as one complete and entire movie. Or think that Seraph will be featured in a new game or Matrix 2. I was sad when I left the movie theatre. I identified with Neo/Trinitys struggle, and that death was/transformation/transition was their reward was somehow hard to swallow. I still love the movie though. Anything that doesn’t leave me numb and indifferent is worth my time.
Moosh> I love the LotR-trilogy. I’ve read the books countless times, and a truer adaptation from book to screen has never been achieved before. But it is a matter of taste.
No, Neo didn’t die. He “transcended”. And exactly like Buddha. You may be a Boddhisatva, an enlightened One (in this scenario anyone who wakes up to the real world, and returns to the Matrix to do superhuman things is) – but Neo went even further than that.
This is – of course – the reason why Trinity HAD to die. She was existing on borrowed time since the end of Reloaded anyways – but there can be no transition if something ties you to the world. Even if it’s something as glorified (in western culture) as love, it is still A BOND.
Omega
Well said about Trinity's necessary death. Is it any wonder why, in Spanish, the word "Espousa" is the word for both Wife and handcuffs?!!
Moosh
You have never read the books, have you? Also, need I remind you that LOTR 1 thru 3 were shot virtually as one movie back to back? There was no time for Hollywood-ization because the last movie was finished before the first movie was released! Thus the movies were a notorious gamble because they didn't know if they would flop or if they'd be a smash hit.
Meta> You seem to’ve missed the point that it goes both ways. Women may ascend and transcend same as men – the soul has no gender, as the Gnostics realised centuries ago.
So using a male-chauvinistic Spanish word as “proof” of anything is distasteful.
AliasNeo> Weeellllll… I didn’t think it was necessary anymore… 😄
Originally posted by The Omega
Meta> You seem to’ve missed the point that it goes both ways. Women may ascend and transcend same as men – the soul has no gender, as the Gnostics realised centuries ago.
So using a male-chauvinistic Spanish word as “proof” of anything is distasteful.
[i]Actually[/b], I didn't miss the point. I know transcendence is not gender discriminatory. You just missed my pun. 🙁 The same roll works in reverse. However, pre-Buddhism (and Judeo-Christian religions as well), women were already considered among the divine with no need to transcend or commune with God, but it was necessary for a man to become one with a woman in order to become enlightened.
You know me better than that Omega!! Lighten up and don't go all femi-nazi on me!!! 😆 We're cool... 😮💨 wanna hook up at the local cyber cafe' and knock down a couple of firewalls together?? J/J 😉 LoL
It seems that people have two main problems with the Revolutions ending:
1) they don't like the fact that Neo and Trinity die.
2) they feel that there are too many unanswered questions.
I agree with Omega et al. in terms of Neo and Trinity -- there wasn't any other way it COULD end and keep true to itself. I think that this ending is the best evidence that The Bros did NOT "sell out" to commercial interests.
As for the unanswered questions: By itself, the existence of "questions" does not bother me -- great works of literature and art ALL leave unanswered questions (why does the Mona Lisa smile???). Great art is great in part because these questions engage the observer and make the experience of the art so much deeper than if you just looked at it and said "It's pretty".
Having said this, I do wonder whether some of the issues were left more unclear than was meant. For example, I think that many people would have appreciated clearer evidence that the war IS over (at least for now??), and if so, a clearer explanation of WHY Neo's sacrifice would cause the machines to end the war. It is only when you understand the answers to these questions that the ending is triumphant, if still tragic. I think that most people who saw the movie once did NOT understand the answers to these questions and so left the theaters feeling very let down.
I'd really like to see an "extended version" of Revolutions.... TTT was MUCH better with the additional material, and I'm wondering whether some re-editing might help Revolutions out a bit as well...