With Liberty and Justice??

And about the oil. That wasn't our primary concern.

Dude, you just said:

"The only reason we even care about is b/c off oil."

Surely that would qualify as a contradiction?

Clinton did do something. Like I said before, he almost solved the problem just by talking to Sharon and Arafat. And whose fault do you think it is that there's nobody in charge of Palestine? Partially ours for not cotinuing with the peace talks. Sorry, I disagree that it is best to use force. We have been entirely unfair to the Palestinians, we expected them to comply with the rules on the "road map to peace", when they had never even agreed with them in the first place.

*rethinks*
I think I confused myself. In this war, anyone who says we're there for oil is mistaken. We're not there for the oil, we're there to oust Saddam and give the Iraqis freedom from tyranny. Now, you mentioned other dictators, and guess what? I'm for getting rid of those bastards. We're prioritizing our actions. And I did say Clinton did alot with the Palestinians. Even if we wanted to negotiated with them, there's no real leader of them.

You no I have no idea why the hell we are out there trting to solve other peoples problems, when there is enough here, and I mean lets face it, there are so many other countries with dictators and tyranny, yet why dont we help them , right they dont have oil!

I can't answer that truthfully, I don't have all the facts. There's a reason Iraq is #1 and it's not oil.

I'll say more tommorrow. Night

*Iraq is number one becaue they don't have perational nuclear forces and its forces consist of ex-soviet weapons that are forces are built and train to destroy.
*North Korea's got Nukes and modern forces... they are the world leading supplier of cruise missles.
*Irans got eonough terrosists and fanatics to blow a hole in the world.. we know if we attack there we will be going into a trap.. Iraq is a good way to draw them out of their territory infrastructure forcing them to smugggle and recruit what forces they have into Iraq.
*Indonesia and all of the Southeast asia countries remind everyone too much of Vietnam thanks to all the anti-war crap we can probably never help any of those countries again.

*The Japanese sent a warning about an hour before the invasion basically saying that the declared war and no specifics where they are going to attack... no one knew what to do or where to alert... philipenes where mobilized because no one thought any modern navy would have a long enough reach to hit Pearl so easily.

*We help others because if we don't no one else will and bitterness in any country will result in anger toward the prosperous nation.. therefore eventually we will be the enemy. ... the obvious way to counter that would be to stop the problem before it starts.
*Anyone else?

Please read my above post first^
*Kuwaits got all the oil actually and technically we have rights and agreements for that already... Iraq oil would be the stupidest thing for any country to try and take advantage of.... due to the fact that we will be considered an aggressor trying to conquer the arab world and then we would have a problem that makes the present state a joke.

Originally posted by Raventheonly
*Iraq is number one becaue they don't have perational nuclear forces and its forces consist of ex-soviet weapons that are forces are built and train to destroy.
*North Korea's got Nukes and modern forces... they are the world leading supplier of cruise missles.
*Irans got eonough terrosists and fanatics to blow a hole in the world.. we know if we attack there we will be going into a trap.. Iraq is a good way to draw them out of their territory infrastructure forcing them to smugggle and recruit what forces they have into Iraq.
*Indonesia and all of the Southeast asia countries remind everyone too much of Vietnam thanks to all the anti-war crap we can probably never help any of those countries again.

*The Japanese sent a warning about an hour before the invasion basically saying that the declared war and no specifics where they are going to attack... no one knew what to do or where to alert... philipenes where mobilized because no one thought any modern navy would have a long enough reach to hit Pearl so easily.

*We help others because if we don't no one else will and bitterness in any country will result in anger toward the prosperous nation.. therefore eventually we will be the enemy. ... the obvious way to counter that would be to stop the problem before it starts.
*Anyone else?

Ok lets say The country does get angry with us, and the bomb us or whatever, they arent stupid why would that country try to harm the prosperous nation, it makes no sense they know they'll lose. The only problem is that many of our men are dying to save another country when our own country needs help.

Originally posted by Raventheonly
Please read my above post first^
*Kuwaits got all the oil actually and technically we have rights and agreements for that already... Iraq oil would be the stupidest thing for any country to try and take advantage of.... due to the fact that we will be considered an aggressor trying to conquer the arab world and then we would have a problem that makes the present state a joke.

really, I had no idea that we had ever made an agreement with them to take their oil, when thousands of people were dying over there because of the poisoned waters due to the all the oil "mills" or whatever, the funniest thing is that why is it ethat we have all the advantage to the agreement, maybe because it wasnt an "agreement". I dont think Kuwait was given to the us , when 2 other countries were fighting for it, There is definitely something else behind that.

Well, I don't believe we "officially" have a "contract" with Kuwait. Just that we sorta saved them during the Gulf War. As it happens, we did go in there because that's where all the oil is... We won the Gulf War, we pretty much got dibs on the oil.

About Palestine, my point was that if we had kept talking to them as soon as Bush got into office, there still would be a Palestinian leader.

I've been forgetting something: Saddam was in office since the '70's. We were fully aware what he was doing in his country, because it was pretty damn obvious. Yet we did nothing until the '90's, and we were, in fact, his friends. Then it all fell apart when Saddam invaded Kuwait. We can live with thousands of people being gassed, but dammit, stay the hell away from our SUV's!

^^well said!

Originally posted by Agent Elrond
How's it our fault? We're not responsible for the hatred in there.

Clinton didn't do much, but what he did with the Palestine/Israeli crisis was good. However, now there is no one in charge of the Palestinians, so negotiating with them is impossible. Best thing to do is to use force.

History lesson time!
After World War 1, the Ottoman Empire, who had previously controled all of that area was broken up as part of the War Guilt Clause. (I think thats what it was). That whole area became a British Mandate (Basicly a suped up colony). Now the Brits promised that land both to the Hebrews and the Arabs, but they didn't make good on this untill after WW2 when the US pressured everyone to give up their colonies. And in 1949 Isreal was Born.....And immediatly attacked by every other surronding country within about 500 miles. Needless to say no-one liked Isreal. The US stepped in and instead of working out a solution, joined the Isralie side and helped them push forward and capture the Gaza strip and other small areas. Now all the existing cizitens, The Palistnian ones were forced into refugee camps. Now they were about an 11 on an anger scale of 1-10. But lacking weapons they made do with what they had, explosives and Rocks. Thus the stalemate we find ourselves in today. With Isreal dealing with the gurilla warfare from the oppressed and pissed of Palistinians with brute milatary force. Neither is very effective and both are extreemly brutal. Now they have locked into a cycle of vengance. One side must attack teh other to get vengance for something the other side did, in response to another attack by the first side. If we just leave it alone it will never stop and our supposed "War on terror" is good for nothing because both side are using different styles of terrorist warfare.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Well, I don't believe we "officially" have a "contract" with Kuwait. Just that we sorta saved them during the Gulf War. As it happens, we did go in there because that's where all the oil is... We won the Gulf War, we pretty much got dibs on the oil.

About Palestine, my point was that if we had kept talking to them as soon as Bush got into office, there still would be a Palestinian leader.

I've been forgetting something: Saddam was in office since the '70's. We were fully aware what he was doing in his country, because it was pretty damn obvious. Yet we did nothing until the '90's, and we were, in fact, his friends. Then it all fell apart when Saddam invaded Kuwait. We can live with thousands of people being gassed, but dammit, stay the hell away from our SUV's!

Exactly this war isnt about helping people its about getting something out of it. I mean its pretty damn smart of the U.S invading country that can be a use to us, but I dont think its worth people's lives.

Anyway I am just posting up my opinion, I so can be wrong in everything I say, but its just my opinion, no facts, but this thread has some really good tid bits about this whole iraq thing.

Land is worth peoples lives unfourtunetly... war has always been over land--- so is freedom--- so is your family---

Saddam held iraq with an iron fist since the 70's correct. We supported him when Iran was the enemy but when he signed pacts with russia for arms to capture the Arab heartland... he was in the soviet alliance. we could not touch hi without sparking a war with the soviets possibly.

Take notice 1989 soviet collapse----1991 Gulfwar... we attacked as soon as the threat was over.

Back to WW1 --- Isrealis were not promised the land... they led a rebellion after mass imigration and arms funding from the US to capture what originally was thier homeland. By the way it was the Six day war and countless other conflicts aimed at destroying isreal by the arabs which were waged. We gave isreal the arms to protect themselves because the soviets were allying with all the arabs and selling them ex-soviet hardware.

you are a war to early.
All of those things did happen but they happend After WW2
The Isralies were promised the land right after WW1 but never really got it untill 1949 when all the stuff you mention happened

ya i just realized that after the mass migration part after the nazis... 🙂 nice^

Yet its still all acurate.

Originally posted by Raventheonly
Land is worth peoples lives unfourtunetly... war has always been over land--- so is freedom--- so is your family---

Saddam held iraq with an iron fist since the 70's correct. We supported him when Iran was the enemy but when he signed pacts with russia for arms to capture the Arab heartland... he was in the soviet alliance. we could not touch hi without sparking a war with the soviets possibly.

Take notice 1989 soviet collapse----1991 Gulfwar... we attacked as soon as the threat was over.

Back to WW1 --- Isrealis were not promised the land... they led a rebellion after mass imigration and arms funding from the US to capture what originally was thier homeland. By the way it was the Six day war and countless other conflicts aimed at destroying isreal by the arabs which were waged. We gave isreal the arms to protect themselves because the soviets were allying with all the arabs and selling them ex-soviet hardware.

yeah war has been over land, but according to who is land worth peoples lives!?

but hey I totally get what you're saying but we all have different opinions so yeah....

Yes we do... but what woild this world be without differing opinions.. i would fight for you to have yours and for mine.

You know what's interesting, is that the Zionists (Israelis) invented terrorism. Read Elie Wiesel's Dawn, which is one of two sequels to Night, it talks about that.

No one 'invented' terrorism. It's an idea. Don't know if what u said is true, but I have no real reason to doubt it.

First started doing it, came up with the idea, whatever. Just an interesting thought.

When did the Iraeli's ever use terrorism?