"If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally."

I had a thought about this line the other day. Now, it's obvious that Vader is trying to spare his son's life here. However, I had another thought. See, knowing what we now know from the PT, there are only ever two Sith. Is it possible that Vader was offering his own life to the Emperor in exchange for his son's?

The more I think about it, the more it makes some sense. Even though Vader does offer Luke the chance to join him and destroy the Emperor, he's urging Luke to kill him throughout both of the duels. "Only your hatred can destroy me," for example.

luke would be a grate ally of coarse but he to much of a goody too shoes.

*luke, together we can destroy the emperor." remember that? vader had his own agenda, which included bringing luke to the dark side, destroying palpy and taking his place.

Which I mentioned...but I really think Vader's backup plan was for him to be sacrificed in exchange for Luke.

actually by the time of ESB GL hadnt thought of the two sits only concept, so in my mind Vader wanted Luke to join them, maybe Vader had an agenda of his own but we really dont know that. The movies doesnt reveal this own agenda of Vader thing, doesnt matter whatever was written in the books

Yeah, I know what was written by Lucas at the time. I was thinking in terms of storyline only, knowing what we know NOW to be canon. So far, I haven't used a single thing that was written in the books, so please get off your canon high horse.

Obviously what Vader really wanted was for Luke to join him and destroy the Emperor. But if that failed, I'm pretty sure he was actually offering his own life in exchange. That's obviously how the emperor took it, as he tried to have them duel to the death on the Death Star.

i say maybe both and who cares if "two siths"was created in 1999.i say go whit the story there is no doub in my mind that vader wanted luke to kill the emperor and vader proclaim himself emperor

Finti's point is of course correct. but GL's comment make it rather clear that retrospectively it is definite that Vader wanted to off the Emperor at that point also. Unfortunately, that ESB scene then makes awkward sense, because the two of them really wouldn;t have talked about it. Oh well.

So no, I do not think GL ever had a sacrifice in mind.

LOL, people are really and truly missing my point here. I'm not talking about GL's storyline. Of course his storyline was to have Vader off the Emperor and join with Luke. I'm just analyzing the actions of Vader as if he were a real person, NOT whether or not GL had thought of this. Haven't any of you ever done this with a fictional character before?

And, to be clear, it has been stated over and over by me that I was NOT saying that Vader DIDN'T want to kill the Emperor. I wish people had done more than skim my post. My point is, Vader knew that if he couldn't defeat the Emperor even with Luke's help, or if Luke refused, the only way for Luke to survive was for him to die. Hence, almost offering himself as a sacrifice.

yeah thats kinda what i was thinking

Seems an abstracted way of thinking to me. I only see it worth imagining the actions of the characters the way they were intended.

yeah but from a certain point of view....lol

Then I feel really bad for you Ush...you're never going to find anything new in any movie you love if you're that obsessed with only concentrating on exactly what's said in the film.

agreed.

lol

but if luke joined vader that would go against the sith rule of 2.

thats why palpatine try making luke all angry so he could either destroy palpatine wich could make vader dark lord of the sith.

but instead it was vader vs luke.