Heroism

I won't say anything to your first part since it wasn't aimed at me
but for Nietzsche I agree
HE is not the best philosopher I think though he got some good points
and Jean-Paul Satre I have to admit i am not familiar with his works so maybe you could say what he had to say about morals and especially altruism

I think Evil Dead has said something I wanted to say about Heroism, which is "benefit". There are few key points to accept to make one a hero, which is "how you feel", "how other people think", and "the benefit of living things (some may call it nature)". There is a good example of heroism, which is "the people of Iraq see Osama Bin Laden as a hero".

WindDancer has some points about letting people being independant... that's why I added some key points to heroism..."how you feel", "how other people think".. everyone has their own oppinion... there is always a debate on this things, so I wouldn't want to decide who is right, because I won't want to be wrong... XD

I don't think there are any unselfish deeds. If you join your wife at the theatre, even though you hate it, it is not because you are unselfish, it is because you know she is going to make your life a living hell for the next month because "you don't love me, and we never do things together, and we always do what you want to do, blah. blah. blah."

If you give your shoes (your very old, worn out shoes that you were planning to get rid of anyway) to a bag lady, it is not because you are unselfish, it is because you were raised in a society that encourages charity and because in chuch you were taught if you don't help the needy, you are going to hell.

For every unselfish act you care to name, I could show you how it is actually in your own interest, even if you don't consciously realise it. Sometime it is long-term reward for short-term loss, but it is always for your own benefit, even if it is only to soothe your conscience (which is a social construct, by the way).

I think you are all missing the point, however. Heroism has nothing to do with charity or unselfishness. In fact, many heroes were glory-seekers, seeking fame and fortune. Again, that is besides the point. The point is, heroism is about fear.

You are a hero when you can conquer your fear. When you jump into a raging river to save a child, even though you are scared you might drown, you are a hero. If you are a Navy SEAL, with years of training and specialised equipment and stacks of experience, it is just another job, and you are probably thinking to yourself "oh God, another freaking idiot I have to save."

It is only when you are so scared you can taste the fear, you wanna pee in your pants and you would run away but your legs are shaking too much, that the question of courage or heroism comes up. Heroism is about conquering your fear, doing what you know is the right thing to do even though you are so scared you are nearly paralysed. A man who climbs a mountain for fun and rescues trapped travellers is certainly doing a good deed. But a man who has a fear of heights and climbs a little old tree to save a cat is a hero.

I think you are wrong, because I'm pretty sure that fear is not a key point in heroism.... When you save someone, sometimes you don't even care about the consequences, or what you fear, because it will look as a challenge to you, at some point, when you think about the consequences, then you are left with not much choice, because time is limited... after all the rubbish I have typed, I still think that fear is not a key point in heroism.....

Dreampanther is saying exactly that what I was trying to say in my posts, there are no real unselfish deeds so you can't define heroism based on that.
I personally thingk there are two definitions though of heroism
1st a human that acomplishs great almost super-human deeds which are seen as good by society, thats a rather old definition like Achilles or Ulysses
2nd the definition by dreampanther is rather good. It describes very well what we see as heroes nowadays.

ahh!!! now I see what you mean... Unselfish deeds do EXIST...first I have to explain that selfish and unselfish deeds, has a hierarchy linked to how you grow up and taught in you past... and that is just 1 factor, there are still other factor to that, such as what you believe in...

As I have said, heroism are based on those key terms I have mentioned earlier, but I believe I can't see everything yet, because I'm not that familiar to this subject yet... so I think there are more to it...

like what is an unselfishj deed then?

a pure heart.... basicly... people who don't look so highly of oneself, and help others....😉

you never taught that existed do you? but I must say it exist....

Of course I got taught that that existed, it just doesn't..
There is no pure heart, everything you do you only do because you think all other possibilities would be worse.
Really I was brought up with all that christian BS and I know what you think is an unselfish deed, but if you look at it its noit re3ally one, there are deeds I think highly of and that I appreciate but saying they are unselfish is just not true.

it is true....100% garauntee... it is always true... this is a good time to explain it anyway since it is chrismas... imagine santa exist.. and he does good deeds because he likes to see the happiness of children WITHOUT thinking of what he can gain in return... that I recognize as love... and of the pure heart... happy imagining!!!!

A. Santa is imaginary, I can invent an imaginary person that would do unselfish deeds.
B. If Santa really existed and would actually do what he is said to do he would probably be some pedophile sicko, who surely would do deeds I think are goos but not for any unselfish reasons.

lol? is this some kind of joke? are you abused somehow when you are in your childhood? that you can't believe in unselfish deeds? I believe you know what I mean, because unselfish deeds does exist....

I believe I know what you mean, but they don't. Good deeds exist (in a society) but no unselfish ones, no one does what he doesn'T want to. Insane people excluded I guess.

(insane people) ahahah nice one.... but ask a kid... if he/she wants something in return if he/she helped his/her little sibling if he/she is in need....

That doesn'T matter if a kid says it does or if it really does are two different things. Of course he has a selfish reason to do what he is doing. If it is to life better with his sister or to be proud of it, or tell someone aboot it or if it just thinks it could get something in return

the problem here is he does it without thinking!!!!! don't you get it???

Did you ever here of the freudian instance model, you know id, ego superego, not everything we do comes because we decide it. Its more of a subconcious thing sometimes, and there it can never be unselfish.

maybe I am too young for this, but I really can't imagine there is NEVER a case where people do things unselfishly....

Well I am not saying that there can'T be, but most are selfish and I couldn'T ever think of one that isn'T