As much as I hate DC, and Superman, it's just common sense that he'd win. In the Ultimate guide to the Hulk it states that at the hulk's base strength he can lift 70 tons, the longer he fights the stronger he gets,and that in one rare instance he pushed aside a nuclear carrier while swiming ( by the way an average Nuclear carrier can way as much as 94,500 tons, yes tons not pounds), but superman can freakin move planets, which I might add are way bigger than carriers. Juggernaut's strength is 100 tons flat, it doesn't increase any. The Blob's strength? Who cares, I bet it's barely over 30 tons, if that. Bane had trouble fighting Azrael ( The guy who stepped in for Batman when his back was broken) who is just like Batman ( who in my opinion is up there with Spidey, and Wolverine in terms of being the best heros), no superhuman strength, speed, or Stamina. Azrael was just a normal guy, if you call olympic level normal. Bane couldn't stop him so he doesn't deserve to be in this battle. But, all that aside Bane would be the first to fall, one snatch at his venom feed and he's gone, next would be the Blob, because I never really liked that guy, Juggernaut would be next because the Hulk and Supes would be focusing on one another, and juggernaut would get caught in between them trying to fight one at a time, and I've got the strangest feeling they'd eventually tag team on Juggs, Knocking him out permanently, not killing him. I do not know how proportionate the Hulk's anger is to his strength. If we had a point system I'd say for every point the Hulks anger level goes up his strength increases proportionatly, maybe at his first level of rage a 50 ton increase would occur, maybe the next a 100 ton increase, next maybe a 1,000, 10,000, and so on. In short, the Hulk would need time to become as powerful as Supes, and during that time he'd get Hell thrown at him, I know he's near indestructible, but could he take 50,000 ton punches to his body for long I'd have to say no. Initially, hulk would not be able to do any real damage to supes, but If somehow he managed to survive to Supe's power Level, Supes is screwed, because there is no real limit to the Hulks power.
thats a good arguement...hulks taken some of supes. punches with little ill effect, granted if there were 20 of those in a row, i doubt he could stand that without being ko'ed, but i bet supes would be afraid to let lose on him that way. supes would probally try to reason with him, while battling, giving hulk the time hulk needs to gather the strength to take supes out.
This whole "Hulk needs time to gather strength" thing is really annoying. He doesn't need to gather strength over long periods of time.
You can argue that Secret Wars is bad writing and you can claim it's all Hulk fans ever mention (which it isn't, especially me) but you don't really have long to get pissed off and angry when a multi-billion ton mountain is plummeting toward your head at a rapid rate. Now if your theory holds water of him needing time.....well he would have been crushed by that rock and all the others would be dead. He's not coz as Vic said, he looked up and in the seconds between him seeing that mountain and him holding all of it up, he got insanely strong because he was afraid to the pit of his very soul. Mental stress which manifests or coincides with emotional stress. Instant reactions causing adrenaline. This all takes seconds. Either way without science or not, that along with a few other Hulk encounters I've mentioned, proves that he needs no time to build strength.
I believe he could withstand Supes power level coz all he's gonna get is heat vision, ice breath and punches. For someone who has endured what he has I'd say that's not too much.
-AC
Originally posted by headrek1
As much as I hate DC, and Superman, it's just common sense that he'd win. In the Ultimate guide to the Hulk it states that at the hulk's base strength he can lift 70 tons, the longer he fights the stronger he gets,and that in one rare instance he pushed aside a nuclear carrier while swiming ( by the way an average Nuclear carrier can way as much as 94,500 tons, yes tons not pounds), but superman can freakin move planets, which I might add are way bigger than carriers. Juggernaut's strength is 100 tons flat, it doesn't increase any. The Blob's strength? Who cares, I bet it's barely over 30 tons, if that. Bane had trouble fighting Azrael ( The guy who stepped in for Batman when his back was broken) who is just like Batman ( who in my opinion is up there with Spidey, and Wolverine in terms of being the best heros), no superhuman strength, speed, or Stamina. Azrael was just a normal guy, if you call olympic level normal. Bane couldn't stop him so he doesn't deserve to be in this battle. But, all that aside Bane would be the first to fall, one snatch at his venom feed and he's gone, next would be the Blob, because I never really liked that guy, Juggernaut would be next because the Hulk and Supes would be focusing on one another, and juggernaut would get caught in between them trying to fight one at a time, and I've got the strangest feeling they'd eventually tag team on Juggs, Knocking him out permanently, not killing him. I do not know how proportionate the Hulk's anger is to his strength. If we had a point system I'd say for every point the Hulks anger level goes up his strength increases proportionatly, maybe at his first level of rage a 50 ton increase would occur, maybe the next a 100 ton increase, next maybe a 1,000, 10,000, and so on. In short, the Hulk would need time to become as powerful as Supes, and during that time he'd get Hell thrown at him, I know he's near indestructible, but could he take 50,000 ton punches to his body for long I'd have to say no. Initially, hulk would not be able to do any real damage to supes, but If somehow he managed to survive to Supe's power Level, Supes is screwed, because there is no real limit to the Hulks power.
There's a lot of error in this logic.
1. You can't compare Hulk's strength to Superman's strength by one's ability to move a planet vs. one inablilty to move a planet. Superman can fly....Hulk can't.
How do you expect him to push something that he's standing on?
Also, once you move a planet out of it's orbit, then it is freely floating in space...there's no gravity to keep it in place once it's out of orbit. So pushing the planet just out of it's orbit would cause it to speed up drastically. Why do you think Space Shuttle's leave our atmosphere at hundreds...maybe thousands of MPH, but in space they travel tens of thousands of miles per hour. There's no gravity or wind resistance to slow stuff down
2. Hulk isn't just about his anger and rage. His strength is in direct relation to the adrenaline that pumps through him. If he were scared...like in Secret Wars when a mountain that "dwarfed the Andies" was hovering above him. It would take mere seconds for the adrenaline to pump him up to unbelievable strength levels.
it's definitly between the two of them. Especially if they just quickly team up on Juggs...hoping to knock him out. But what's with the 20,000 punches? Wouldn't Hulk fight back? Or did he just turn into a big green punching bag?
Juggernaut can't die, and neither Hulk or Superman have the means to cut him off from his magic (Unless we're refering Suck Austen's Jobbernaut, who's weakened him greatly, and Superman from what it seems too). But that doesn't mean he can't be taken out of the fight. If Supes or Hulk get a lucky moment, they can fling Juggernaut across an ocean, then again ljust ike the Superman taking Hulk in space dispute Juggernaut won't make it so easy. Or, like I've mentioned on another thread, either can make a cliff or a canyon collapse on him, leavign him pretty pissed and force to slowly dig his way out for a few years. As has been said, you can't count out Juggernaut, if anything he'd be one of the most difficult parts of this fight, since neither character can't physically hurt him, let alone kill him. And he doesn't tire out, his powers keep him fresh 24/7. While Hulk, even though he has stamina in spades, can wear down after a while, although his adrenaline can bring him back up, but it's hard to say how long he can pull this of for exactly, so it's pretty iffy in my view. And Superman has damn good stamina too, but his can tire out also, which can slowly wear down the force field that protects his body (and also keeps his suit in shape for those that may have been wondering), but it's really hard for me to say on that point. And Juggernaut's shown a level of 100, but like the Hulk, his true limits are unknown and have yet to be shown. It probably wouldn't be the best idea to have a slugfest with Juggernaut for too long, since it really doesn't hurt him they may just wear themselves out because of it, but it doesn't mean Juggernaut can't be taken out of the fight. It'll take more than just brawn to take Juggernaut out, it's been tryed too many times, and with the exception of War (which I'm not counting cause that'll just start up a totally new debate in here) those that tryed the straight-foward approach and failed every time. Cain can be beaten, you just gotta use the old noggin and add some strategy to doing it.
really bane would be out with one of juggy's, hulk's or supe's punches and then blob then it would be a three-way between hulk superman and juggernaut. also read this Special Limitations: Eyes, ears, nose, and mouth are not as resistant to injury as the rest of his body,but blob IS pretty bad-ass so he might stay in for a while. plus currently, blob is 8ft tall and 976 pounds but I'd be funny (ironically no ha ha funny) if they all died. plus bane is weak, all you have to do is pull his stupid plug and he'll be a little nerdy green man. not to mention bane could only lift about 12tons at peak capacity while any of the others could lift that with ease
Man, I like this topic! I'm sorry if bumping this from the second page is gonna piss anyone off, but I finally decided to register because I wanted to weigh in on this.
Alright. Bane is dead, no one argues. Blob might have some staying power, but Juggernaut could and would pull his head off if he was in the mood to.
So, just like everyone else has said, it comes down to Juggs, Hulk, and Supes. Now, at first I was gonna go with supes. I know this isn't the most popular opinion, but his speed is second only to Flash and his kind. This also means reaction times many many MANY times that of a human. I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain Juggy and Hulk are about normal on reaction times. This means, in a straight up fight, Supes takes a few hard hits, realizes he's not gonna overpower them, and just starts ducking and weaving like a boxer.
Then, the obscure comic trivia part of my brain activated, and I remembered Superman's other big weakness: magic. Time and again, it's been admitted that he can't stand up to magic, it cuts right through his invulnerability. Juggernaut derives his powers from God-level magic. Since Superman isn't going to go straight to max power, chances are he's gonna take one hit from Juggernaut to gauge his power. Guaranteed Juggy is gonna be using a big portion of his strength. So, a few hits from Juggernaut and Superman is out of the fight if not straight up dead (AGAIN).
As for Juggernaut and Hulk? I dunno, at first my gut tells me Juggernaut. He's powered by a friggin GOD in a gem. But then we have Hulk doing a balancing act with a mountain. I'm thinking Hulk, because Rage-induced strength + insane healing factor + watching Juggernaut beat Superman without breaking a sweat = Hulk just freaks the hell out and pounds him into ground beef.
Originally posted by Khellendros
Man, I like this topic! I'm sorry if bumping this from the second page is gonna piss anyone off, but I finally decided to register because I wanted to weigh in on this.Alright. Bane is dead, no one argues. Blob might have some staying power, but Juggernaut could and would pull his head off if he was in the mood to.
So, just like everyone else has said, it comes down to Juggs, Hulk, and Supes. Now, at first I was gonna go with supes. I know this isn't the most popular opinion, but his speed is second only to Flash and his kind. This also means reaction times many many MANY times that of a human. I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain Juggy and Hulk are about normal on reaction times. This means, in a straight up fight, Supes takes a few hard hits, realizes he's not gonna overpower them, and just starts ducking and weaving like a boxer.
Then, the obscure comic trivia part of my brain activated, and I remembered Superman's other big weakness: magic. Time and again, it's been admitted that he can't stand up to magic, it cuts right through his invulnerability. Juggernaut derives his powers from God-level magic. Since Superman isn't going to go straight to max power, chances are he's gonna take one hit from Juggernaut to gauge his power. Guaranteed Juggy is gonna be using a big portion of his strength. So, a few hits from Juggernaut and Superman is out of the fight if not straight up dead (AGAIN).
As for Juggernaut and Hulk? I dunno, at first my gut tells me Juggernaut. He's powered by a friggin GOD in a gem. But then we have Hulk doing a balancing act with a mountain. I'm thinking Hulk, because Rage-induced strength + insane healing factor + watching Juggernaut beat Superman without breaking a sweat = Hulk just freaks the hell out and pounds him into ground beef.
Only one problem with the Juggernaut/Superman theory, even though Juggy's power is fueled by magic, it goes into Juggernaut in the form of physical power, so that's pretty much out. Now if Juggy all of a sudden remembered how to use the other latent powers that come with the power of Cyttorak, then it may be a different case. As for Hulk/Juggernaut, true, Hulk has showed many feats of strength (although the whole mountain thing was mostly leverage, as Hulk admitted himself, but still amazing nonetheless), but out of the three out of four times they'e gone at it (the forth time Hulk's power being augmented), Juggernaut been able to match Hulk in power, I know people constantly argue about this, but that's just how it's gone down. And, the third time, Juggernaut did beat Hulk (although Proffesor Hulk didn't realize he was fighting someone as strong as Juggernaut until it was too late cause Juggy fought him in plain street cloths, but it was still a victory regardless). But anyways, Hulk won't actually beat him into ground beef, that's impossible due to invulnerability (I know you're not serious by the comment, just saying it for those that might not know), but it would be a good and very long fight. And I'll give Supes some credit, I'm sure he can go at it with these two for a while, unless we see a Doomsday repeat here.
Oh, and I know some people still say Juggernaut can't outpower Hulk, but some knowledge for that don't know, and those that do can disregard all this, but in Marvel Team-Up #150, Juggernaut was stripped to "half" of his power, the other half which he was sharing with Black Tom, and was still able to choke out Rogue with one hand and beat on Colossus with the other. And also exploded out of a 40 foot cocoon of solid steel in Thor #412. Just a bit of knowledge for the few that didn't know. 😉
Originally posted by Tron
Only one problem with the Juggernaut/Superman theory, even though Juggy's power is fueled by magic, it goes into Juggernaut in the form of physical power, so that's pretty much out. Now if Juggy all of a sudden remembered how to use the other latent powers that come with the power of Cyttorak, then it may be a different case.
"Whosoever touches this gem shall possess the power of the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Henceforth, you who read these words shall become forevermore a human juggernaut."
That's what Cain Marko read in the temple where he found the gem. Now, we've seen the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak put to use by Dr Strange as a sort of defensive or containment spell. Very effective. And he didn't even have direct access to the God Cyttorak.
*I* believe that the crimson bands are what make up his armor, including the bands around his hands, but for the life of me, I can't find out for sure. If I'm right, though, then we've got solid mystical energy wrapped around Juggernauts fist. It'd be like a boxer using brass knuckles on a normal person.
The "strength level" thing is really kind of moot other than for rankings since in the comics they usually lift much more.
Anyway, I don't like those weak "throw them somewhere else" "wins". So I figure if they're in their prime, Superman and Juggernaut are arm wrestling at the end of time where Flash appears to escape Death or whatever happened with that.
If they're not, Superman's alone at the end of time. Bane's just a souped up man and the remainders' endurance levels are to the point where they'd probably die of old age before they're mortally wounded by each other. This time I'm serious about the old age thing.
Strength-wise, they're pretty much in the same vague insanely powerful level with Superman edging out in the lead and Hulk and Juggernaut varying depending on how angry Hulk is and how well Cyttorak is "feeding" Juggernaut.
The thing about Superman though is he is ridiculously powerful. By all accounts that I've heard, he should be tearing down buildings when he stubs his toe in them. Oh, and that the planet he pushed had warp boosters, or something similarly named, on it.
And that VS comics are discounted as they're judged by popularity.
Juggernaut's suit and the Bands of Cyttorak are made of different substances and are used differently. The Bands of Cyttorak are controled by Dr. Strange's will, and can be broken if you catch him on a bad day, the Hulk's broken them before. And if I remember right, some of Strange's spells come from a bit of Cyttorak's power also. Juggernaut's armor is made of an indestructible fiber, and simply keeps him from being naked wheneven he does some crazy sh*t that would destroy normal clothing. Like I said though, the powers given to him are manifested in physical form, except when he uses his force field, which he rarely uses in a straight fight, and his patented "unstoppability". But regardless, any attacks Juggernaut throws at Superman will be purely physical, but will definitely hurt like hell.
And Swank, Juggernaut doesn't age, which is why he still looks younger than Xavier when he's actually older.
Once he was cut off from all but his strength though wasn't he? For how long the fight lasts, Cyttorak may ease off the gas like that again. On the flip side, he was once fueled to the point where he could shatter dimensions. And I'm not quite sure when this happened but it's gotta count for something on account of how cool it is.
Which is why I think it'll be either just Superman or Superman and Juggernaut playing checkers to see who's the best at "the end of time."
It was during Juggernaut: Eighth Day that he was doing that. And he's currently cut off by his power now, by Cyttorak himself, Although anyone with enough knowledge of magic can temporarily cut him off from it. And with Cyttorak gives him the power, he either has it or he doesn't (which is why I still don't understand the current Jugs, if Cyttorak decides to cut him off he should just be a plain ole human, but that's just the way I see it). And I don't know if in that comic if Juggernaut was actually fueled, I'd probably say he was more influenced to go to a certain place, then again I could be wrong cause Thor did say his power had increased dramatically. And that pic you're talking about is from Juggernaut One Shot, when he dealt with D' Spayre.
Oh, and Superman does age if you didn't know😉
I think he ages just like any normal person if I'm not mistaken, although he'd remain just as healthy as he is now.
This is how it goes;
Blob and Bane enter the arena, turn to eachother and sigh.
Bane: Yea... this is totaly gay... I hate the beyonder.
Blob: I got nuthin'.
Banner looks at Juggernaut and Supes, who are already yelling at eachother.
Juggs: I'm gonna crush you like a bug, mr. high and mighty.
Superman: Your welcome to try, but I won't let you.
Juggernaut punches Superman, and Supes flys backwards, skidding across the ground. He lays motionless a couple hundred yards away, a crater trail leading from juggernaut to him.
Juggernaut: Now its your turn little man.
Juggernaut moves to crush banner, but he is already changed into the Hulk. Juggernaut flexes and grins.
Juggernaut: Alright, this time you're going down.
Superman: No! You're going down!
Juggernaut turns to Superman and raises an eyebrow.
Juggernaut: You're stronger then you look. Haha! Guess I'll just have to hit you harder next ti---
Juggernaut is cut short as hulk scoops him up and hurls him at superman. The unstoppable juggernaut hits superman, and doesnt stop. The duo hit the ground and superman is smashed into the ground. Eventually they stop and juggernaut gets up, dusts off and stomps on Superman's limp body.
Juggernaut: You shouldn't have done that greenie!
Hulk and juggernaut trade blows, bashing, smashing, etc. Hulk gets really mad and picks juggernaut up, and drives him headfirst into the ground. Juggernaut flails but can't get out.
Superman flies out of nowhere and clocks hulk in the face. Hulk grabs him in one hand and bashes him against the ground repeatedily. Letting him go, he steps on his legs and begins to punch him in the face repeatidly. The ground begins to cave in around superman from the force of Hulk's blows.
Juggernaut recovers and goes to tackle Hulk, but he just slams into hulk's open palm. Hulk slides backwards, his feet grinding the dirt as he and juggernaut fight for supremecy. Blob and Bane sneak up and continue to pummel superman, hoping to get something for killing him.
Hulk gets knocked around a bit and gets really pissed off. He headbutts Juggernaut, knocking him off balance, and does a running uppercut, launching him out into space. Juggernaut screams and tries to catch a foothold... but hes unstoppable. He continues out until he smashes through the asteroid belt and into mars.
Back on Earth Superman gets up, feeling like he had too many beers and trashes Bane and blob. Hulk, now unbelievably pissed off because juggernaut punched him in the face a few times, grabs superman with one hand. Superman struggles but Hulk is now too strong. Proceeding to pummel him again, Hulk wears superman out and then smashes him with a nice Hulk smash.
Banner walks away from the fight, and a few days later Superman gets back up, juggernaut reenters the atmosphere, and Captain America finnaly admits hes a homosexual.
