Originally posted by ragesRemorse
well superman has beaten darkseid, and he is essentially a rip off of A-poc, A-poc may have more abilities but they are again essentially the same characters.
whoah how wrong is that, Apoc is a rip off of darkseid, someone posted that Marvel has admitted this. I have 4 words for ya Jack "The King" Kirby, creator of Darkseid and all the new gods.
All abilities at play, Apoc wins. If he were a super hero there'd be no question. He can grant himself any physical ability, make himself invulnerable to Supes powers, morph his body into weapons, machines, etc, and if he gained knowledge of Supes vulnerability to kryptonite, he could just morph his hands into the substance and grab Supes by the neck.
The only counter would be Supes speed, but considering that Apoc can grant himself any physical ability, or just form a warp drive jet pack onto his back and a kryptonite radiation signature blaster out of his hand, he could counter.
Gotta be Apoc.
Now, if it were those crazy blue and red energy versions of Supes with the psuedo-Magneto powers, he might have a chance to pull of the adverse polarity attack Magneto used in AoA. The other normal Supes versions would have their hands seriously full because they rely to heavily on brute force. That's Apoc's arena all the way. You have to be either psionic or have energy/matter manipulation powers to down Apocalypse. You can't take him physically.
Originally posted by illadelph12
All abilities at play, Apoc wins. If he were a super hero there'd be no question. He can grant himself any physical ability, make himself invulnerable to Supes powers, morph his body into weapons, machines, etc, and if he gained knowledge of Supes vulnerability to kryptonite, he could just morph his hands into the substance and grab Supes by the neck.The only counter would be Supes speed, but considering that Apoc can grant himself any physical ability, or just form a warp drive jet pack onto his back and a kryptonite radiation signature blaster out of his hand, he could counter.
Gotta be Apoc.
Now, if it were those crazy blue and red energy versions of Supes with the psuedo-Magneto powers, he might have a chance to pull of the adverse polarity attack Magneto used in AoA. The other normal Supes versions would have their hands seriously full because they rely to heavily on brute force. That's Apoc's arena all the way. You have to be either psionic or have energy/matter manipulation powers to down Apocalypse. You can't take him physically.
I disagree precrisis superman could move planets through brute force, and the superman from the 835th or something century punched through the time barrier, and superman prime is well just superman prime (15000 inside a star esentially he is a living star)
Superman moved the planets with flight. He never lifted it.
Pushing a car and lifting a car aren't the same, are they? Strength isn't required to move a planet, force (as well as the power of flight,) is.
A rocket could do the same thing Superman did. (Though moving a planet without going through it is illogical. But, this is a comic book. Early DC comic book, no less) If Superman stood on a surface that attracted gravitational pull equivalent to that of Earth's, and lifted the weight of the planet, THAT would prove that he could lift a planet. His strength is significantly less.
Superman really didn't "beat" Doomsday. He stopped him. Superman died at the end of the fight; Doomsday lived on.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Superman moved the planets with flight. He never lifted it.
Pushing a car and lifting a car aren't the same, are they? Strength isn't required to move a planet, force (as well as the power of flight,) is.A rocket could do the same thing Superman did. (Though moving a planet without going through it is illogical. But, this is a comic book. Early DC comic book, no less) If Superman stood on a surface that attracted gravitational pull equivalent to that of Earth's, and lifted the weight of the planet, THAT would prove that he could lift a planet. His strength is significantly less.
Superman really didn't "beat" Doomsday. He stopped him. Superman died at the end of the fight; Doomsday lived on.
I never said he lifted it besided in the comic world it DOES require strength. Many other heroes can fly but none can single handedly move the planet.
"A rocket could do the same thing Superman did." Yes a Super rocket could, but not any conventional rocket.
Regardless of all that he is still far stronger than Apocalypse.
Originally posted by Mane
no i have made this list and i will make it again!1. Franklin Richards
2. X-Man
3. Apocalypse
4. Cable (without techno virus)
5. Magneto( at full power)
6. Professor Xavier
7. Cassandra Nova
8. Exodus
9. Emma Frost
10. Psylocke
11. Rogue
Am I missing something here? I do agree with 1-2 and a few of the others, but if this is a "most powerful Marvel mutants" list, then where is Thanos, Onslaught, Jean (with Pheonix Force), Jubilee, etc. A little off topic though (sorry), and probably for another thread...
-DM
P.S. Don't freak out...jk on Jube's.
馃檪
See, here's the catch: Supes starts out stronger then Apocalypse, but Apocalypse can increase his strength to match or surpass Supes. And unlike Hulk, it's not based on anger, all it takes is for Apoc to will himself to class 500,000+ tons. Not only that, but he could use Supes own strength against him. He could grant himself the power to absorb all forms of kinetic energy to increase his strength (ala Sebastian Shaw) which would be a physical ability, and then every punch Supes delivers works against him and makes Apoc stronger. Then it's just a matter of beating on Supes until that biomatrix field weakens (like Doomsday did) and Supes is dead.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Even in comic books, it requires force to move a heavenly body.
OK...............when did I state differently. Strength is force and if you argue otherwise then thats just semantics you know what I meant.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Unless Superman was pushing off of a surface, he would need force behind him to move a planet.
He would still need a force to lift an object no matter where he is
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The force Superman projected behind himelf moved the planet, not his body itself.
And to exert a force you need to do work and the stronger you are the more work you can do hence the more force you exert. I mean where do you think the force came from? When you pick up a ball your body isnt actually moving it, the electron clouds are repelling each other, equal and opposite and all that, preventing gravity from ripping through your hand.
If I do a handstand, am I lifting the weight of the Earth, or am I lifting myself? I am lifting my own weight, of course. That is the idea. Even if Superman could lift a billion earths, his strength would do nothing if he cannot exert a locomotive force behind him. He would have to project some sort of force, other than strength, to move the earth. Otherwise, he'd just be doing a handstand.
I don't know what the hell you're talking about towards the end of your post, but it sounds like you're going a bit too far in depth.
[Since people seem to have overlooked my point]:
"Supes starts out stronger then Apocalypse, but Apocalypse can increase his strength to match or surpass Supes. And unlike Hulk, it's not based on anger, all it takes is for Apoc to will himself to class 500,000+ tons. Not only that, but he could use Supes own strength against him. He could grant himself the power to absorb all forms of kinetic energy to increase his strength (ala Sebastian Shaw) which would be a physical ability, and then every punch Supes delivers works against him and makes Apoc stronger. Then it's just a matter of beating on Supes until that biomatrix field weakens (like Doomsday did) and Supes is dead."
Oh, and Cosmic Cube is right.
I made the same argument in the Hulk Vs. Godzilla thread when someone said Hulk could just grab Godzilla by the tail and swing him around, and I said that all of Hulk's strength wouldn't matter if he grabbed Zilla's tail and Zilla lifted it and Hulk more than 10 feet off the ground and he had no ground to stand on, but that's immaterial here.
Reason # one i don't like X-Men, They created a team of mutants with down to earth powers, as Marvel takes great pride in saying that THEIR super heroes are more interesting for it. On the other hand, those not so powerfull mutants battle infinitaly strong villains, the likes of Magneto who is, all powers taken into acount, unbeatable, Apoc who also is technicaly an all powerful god, and yet always manage to beat them. On paper, thos two villains are in the Surfer/Thanos league, yet the X-Men beat them again and again...
in reality, both can take on Kal-El, but in comic books they have been beaten to many times by much lesser characters than Supes, so im going with Supes, unless these characters all pop up in real life one day, but ill see then.