Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, speaking as a resident of North Carolina, as a gay man, and as a man who has lived with his "significant other"...I can say with no uncertain amount of conviction that what other people have to say about how anyone lives their lives is, for the most part, irrelevant. Anyone that argues that if we allow gay people to marry that the next will be pedophiles...and then say they have nothing against homosexuals: "because they know some" and !..surprise!.."they actually LIKE THEM!"...are talking out of their ass. They may like them, but they don't truely accept them, much less really believe that they deserve to be treated as equal human beings.Thats what all this is really about. Rights. And more importantly, how long certain groups will ALLOW their rights to be kept from them. If I want to walk down the street holding my boyfriends hand, then why does that bother anyone else?
Some people say, it's because "GOD DOESN'T LIKE IT" Well, you know what, if I am going to burn for the rest of eternity in hell, why is that not enough retribution in the eyes of those who "think" it's wrong? I'll be the one suffering for the rest of eternity, why make the here and now
difficult too?As for living with someone and not being married to them? Well, thats just bull shit! Why have we not evolved in our morals since the mid 1900's?
indeed 👆
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
They may like them, but they don't truely accept them, much less really believe that they deserve to be treated as equal human beings.
Now this may seem odd - since i'm the one that got KMCensored for speaking out against snakehead and his what i found to be offensive attitude.
But i'm not sure if he is as bad as you paint: yes people can be around homosexuals and think they are being accepting and liberal minded only to find themselves accused as perhaps shallower than they thought when the chips are down.
Lord knows each of us has our own prejudices that crop up unbidden sometimes - i think that the problem is that sometimes people think that because they dont freak out at the idea and once were in a room with a gay man they are right-on!
Its not necessarily bigotry or a belief that gays or blacks or Iranians are LESSER humans, it's just a lack of understanding, a lack of education, a lack of exposure.
[Edited]
I really doubt that god would send anyone into the pit fires of hell for sharing the core of someone they love.
Forget all that scary hell talk.
Yeah, god is going to punish you for being your natural self. 🙄 We're born heterosexual, bisexual, gay etc. If god wants to punish us for something we cant change, well then that's no god of mine.
Originally posted by BackFire
I dunno, keep in mind this is the same god that sends everyone to hell unless they've "confessed" their sins, and the same god that allows us to be born with "original sin" and will send us to hell even if we've led a good, wholesome life because of this.
Depends on your viewpoint. Old testament Hell isnt where souls go when they die, it's where the wicked go after the resurrection and final judgment.
You get mention of the burning lake in revelations - but for the most part these days hell is considered to be "separation from god"
Originally posted by Mr Zero
Now this may seem odd - since i'm the one that got KMCensored for speaking out against snakehead and his what i found to be offensive attitude.But i'm not sure if he is as bad as you paint: yes people can be around homosexuals and think they are being accepting and liberal minded only to find themselves accused as perhaps shallower than they thought when the chips are down.
Lord knows each of us has our own prejudices that crop up unbidden sometimes - i think that the problem is that sometimes people think that because they dont freak out at the idea and once were in a room with a gay man they are right-on!
Its not necessarily bigotry or a belief that gays or blacks or Iranians are LESSER humans, it's just a lack of understanding, a lack of education, a lack of exposure.
[Edited]
I wasn't reffering to anyone in particular...
I really doubt that god would send anyone into the pit fires of hell for sharing the core of someone they love.Forget all that scary hell talk.
Yeah, god is going to punish you for being your natural self. We're born heterosexual, bisexual, gay etc. If god wants to punish us for something we cant change, well then that's no god of mine.
That's my point.
Originally posted by Mr Zero
Depends on your viewpoint. Old testament Hell isnt where souls go when they die, it's where the wicked go after the resurrection and final judgment.You get mention of the burning lake in revelations - but for the most part these days hell is considered to be "separation from god"
Your statement only serves to validate my argument. Even the religious persons point of view has changed, evolved... One century God says one thing, then the next he says something different. Why? Because God is fickle? No, because God as he is believed to exist was created by flawed, prejudice MAN.
Look, I am a spiritual person. I believe in a higher power...maybe not GOd as he/she/it is represented by the Judeo-Christian outlook...but certainly in a great creator/force that has some hand in the fate of the universe...and each of us.
So, if a Christian from the dark ages can look at aChristian from today and say that he is going to hell because of the differences in moral opinion and religious outlook, then why can't a Christian from today look at the future and find room for a gay man?
**Not to say that some can not, but there are certainly a lot who can't**
I dunno. Lots of people are afraid of change, and that's what gay marriges represent. It WOULD be a major change, even though gays themselves think it wont effect anyone but themselves. It would raise questions about moral righteousness and whatnot, and alot will be going on.
I'm all for it, but my opinion doesn't matter. I can't even vote yet.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I dunno. Lots of people are afraid of change, and that's what gay marriges represent. It WOULD be a major change, even though gays themselves think it wont effect anyone but themselves. It would raise questions about moral righteousness and whatnot, and alot will be going on.I'm all for it, but my opinion doesn't matter. I can't even vote yet.
There is a difference between morals and right and wrong. Morals are largely a matter of opinion. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is wrong to kill someone. It is a matter of morals to assist a terminal cancer patient with suicide.
As far as opinions are concerned, everyone can have their opinion. But, just remember that it is no longer your opinion once it starts to effect me...or anyone for that matter.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
There is a difference between morals and right and wrong. Morals are largely a matter of opinion. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is wrong to kill someone. It is a matter of morals to assist a terminal cancer patient with suicide.As far as opinions are concerned, everyone can have their opinion. But, just remember that it is no longer your opinion once it starts to effect me...or anyone for that matter.
No, right and wrong are based on morals, which is relative. Is it wrong to kill someone in self-defense?
Opinions are opinions whether they effect others or not. What else would it be?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It is wrong to kill someone. It is a matter of morals to assist a terminal cancer patient with suicide.
Actually no, if it were a matter of morals we would be able to decide for ourselves - it's a matter of law, thus "wrong" by statute.
And that's whats causing the issue is it not - laws based on arbitrary moral definitions of goodness and badness.
The answer to the thread is that yes, cohabitation and / or gay marriage IS a moral issue - but that doesnt imply that it's wrong or right -
What that SHOULD tell us that as a moral issue it's for us to decide and that no law or individual should have the "right" to interfere.