Well, I think bringing me being a man into it is entirely inappropriate. I am simply working on my experiences and the opinions I have seen from people of both sexes.
I will simply repeat- plenty of women (and men) say they enjoy it. Feel free to disbelieve me when I report that, or them when thy say that, but that is my submission to the argument.
Ush> Why is that inappropriate? In a world where 99,9999999 % of all prostitutes are women, and their customers male, I deem it quite appropriate to point out, that you – a man – think women (some) enjoy being a consumer good, while I – a women – have my doubts.
One thing is saying “Oh, I enjoy it.” Another thing is truly doing it. It’s like the thong-thread. People are good at making themselves believe one thing or another, for various reasons. Maybe some prostitutes DO like their line of work – who am I to claim expertise on the field? I’m simply having my doubts. I’ll be happy to elaborate on the reasons and nature of these doubts if that is necessary.
It’s like porn-stars, who put their happy face on, and start doing drugs. Or young women, who get naked pictures taken, and regret it dearly later on (such as Madonna).
Another thing is whether or not society should reduce women to consumer goods. As I wrote a few pages back, the Danish government is considering making it illegal for soldiers stationed abroad to visit prostitutes. I was amazed that it WAS legal. Today on the front-page of one of the tabloids, the soldiers are acting like spoiled children, stomping their feet and yelling “We want sex.” As if it was their God-given right. This idea that some men have, that they have a RIGHT to sex makes my head spin.
Try imagine if it was the other way around.
Yerssot> ... Was THAT on purpose... ???
🤣
So, The Omega has never heard of men having to flee home due to an abusive wife... well, it happens, it just doesnt seem to get any publicity... a friend of my father's was in an abusive relationship for years... his wife would hit him, shove him down the stairs; she even burned his back with a hot iron while he was sleeping... what had he done to her? Well at one point he suggested she get a part time job in order to help pay off her catalogue bills... then he asked if she could do the washing up just once a week... he didn't say anything because he was scared that people would laugh at him, that he would be thought a wimp, that no-one would believe him, and (poor sod) because he loved her... it only came to light after she stabbed him six times in the chest because he said hello to the wrong neighbour...
Now this is one I won't support. Legalizing prostitution is not the answer. Believe it or not I agree with TheOmega and Xena fan on this one. Why? Because is true! Crimes and discrimination to women would only increase in mass numbers. Burlesques (sp?) would only become more richer, and women would only be exploited much more.
Xena fan mention something about overseas brides sold to rich nations. It could be true! Those sugar daddies could purchase them, exploit them, and make them work to support their lifestyles. The women of course don't get even half of what they earn. Now can picture a pimp with the rights to sell sex? Even worse if prostitution is legalize the pimp can just do whatever he pleases with the hooker. Sorry! I just don't support prostitution or even making it legal.
Originally posted by The Omega
Yerssot> Good to know. 🙂Xena_Fan> Ah! John Cleese once said that we MUST be able to joke about everythng. If we cannot do that, the "thing" has got too much power over us. And you DO run the risk of being made fun at, using "All men", as if there aren't representatives of the male species that don't feel a need to abuse and harrash women.
However - I think I know where you're coming from. That is just hard to explain, because this is still a "man's world".
Yes! Thank you for saying that. I know I have misjudge some men in the past and I have apologize to many here in the forums. I had a friend of mine that was discriminated not too long ago in a job application. It hurt me to see that she was consider "not capable" of performing certain duties that don't require any experience whatsoever.
I can take a joke, but lately I don't know if yerssot is joking or is he bein serious to me? Anyways I hold no quarrel with him any more.
I dont know who Mr. Cleese is, but if you recomend some of his writtings I will look them up. 😄
There are many women that have been my inspiration in life. For example, Susan B. Anthony is one of them. Have you heard of her? When I gather some of her writtings I will post them. She had a strong voice on prostituion. Even today her writtings on the subject are largely admire worldwide.
To WindDancer: You agree with me? (please dont consider this flamming "Im not trying to offend you with this) Then why do you support pornography? Dont you consider it an explotation of women?
Because, Omega, you are simply reducing it to a basic level of being man vs. woman. My views of prostitution- which, may I remind you, are broadly in agreement of yours- have absoluely nothing to do with my gender. And your 99.9999999% thing is simple exaggeration- the proportion is actually about a quarter of prostitutes being male (in the States, anyway, and others follow pretty much the same pattern). The only reason I believe it is because I believe THEM when they say they do. That does not make it right, that does not make legalising it a good idea, but if simply faced with the question "Do any of them enjoy what they do?" then my answer can only be that, from everything I have seen, heard, and read, 'Yes, some of them do."
You think they are mistaken- that is your right. I think you are totally wrong to think that.
And it is about reducing PEOPLE to consumer goods. Not just WOMEN. The proportions are irrelevant- this is a principle.
And the reason it was legal for those Danish soldiers, Omega, is beause it is very unusual for paying someone in private for sex to be illegal. I will remind you that paying for sex is already legal just about everywhere. In fact, making it illegal is contrary to a UN resolution saying that it should be legal (not to mention that the US National Organisation for Women voted for the same thing in 1973).
Yerssot> First you make a sarcastic comment to Xena Fan. I fly off the handle, you explain yourself, I apologize... And then your NEXT comment to Xena Fan is the epitome of diplomacy. It cracked me up completely!! 😄
Big_Gay_Kirk> Men flee their homes due to abusive wives? Can you give me just one example from the media?
Then when you've done that, consider the rate of fleeing men to fleeing women - where is the biggest problem?
WindDancer> Have you heard of trafficking? Young women from Eastern Europe and Asia get lured to Europe under the pretence of getting a job. Instead they end up - in the thousands - in brothels in the West. The middle-men even go so far as to take their passports to prevent the women from leaving again. And place them in the situation "If you don't do as I say, I'll tell he police you're here illegally."
Xena_Fan> John Cleese was a member of a brilliant British comedy-group Monthy Python. He's done a lot of acting (such as in "A fish called wanda"😉. Look him up on the I-net.
Ush> No, I am not. I am merely pointing out, that those who're found to be positively inclined towards prostituion, or - as you - think prostitutes enjoy their line of work are men. And you're a man. I am aware that you're not in favour of legalising prostituion. I do - however - find it interesting that you chose to believe Amy, while I do not. And I find it by NO means irrelevant that you, the believer, is a man, while I, who do not, am a woman.
I am NOT saying all men want to legalise prostituion - please notice that.
The 99,9999999 (or around there) % was - I admit - simply a number I wrote. But then - how many of your 25 % male prostitutes are giggolos, and how many are gay prostitutes. The point of that matter being "some mens idea that they have a RIGHT to sex."
??? Are you telling me the UN says prostitution should be legal????
(Goes to a hiltop and starts hitchhiking for the next spaceship to stop by planet Earth).
Originally posted by The Omega
WindDancer> Have you heard of trafficking? Young women from Eastern Europe and Asia get lured to Europe under the pretence of getting a job. Instead they end up - in the thousands - in brothels in the West. The middle-men even go so far as to take their passports to prevent the women from leaving again. And place them in the situation "If you don't do as I say, I'll tell he police you're here illegally."
Something very similar to that happens here in the US. Women from Mexico and Central America are brought to the US with the promise of "factory jobs". Once they arrive the people that traffic these women threaten them with things like "we will report you to the immigration department" or even "we can kill you, and they won't identify you because you are an illegal alien"
That's one of the reason why the US enforces immigration laws. There are countless violantions agains't women in American/Mexican border most of those violations come from people that traffic women, and some even come from the border patrol!
Omega... another problem with female violence towards men is that the media tend not to be interested... doesn't sell enough papers... although occasionally some does leak into the locals... check out copies of the Coalville Times and the Leicester Mercury... but you'll have to look in the little, tiny articles... plus, I never said it was aworse problem than the one women have with abusive men, I just said it existed and was poorly publicised. There are abusive relationships of all kinds, whether man to woman, woman to man, man to man and woman to woman... Women are not perfect, and can be just as violent and perverted as men... about 25% of all paedophiles are women...
Errt, well, I think that final figure is rather dodgy. After all, it is well known that the vast amount of child sexual abuse takes place inside the family and goes unreported, and that such abuse is nearly always male-led. In the final analysis, there is little doubt that Men are by far the largest perpetrators of such crimes; even my point above about the idea being to reduce exploitation of people rather than women happily admits that the exploitation of Men is simply by other Men.
Women CAN be like that, for sure, but by far the biggest problem is from men,
Out here in Germany, it is completely legal. There are well established brothel's that all have their own nicknames as given by the local's, and there are what we call 'Lay-by Lil's' all over the place - just camper van's etc in lay-by's and in clearings run for the cheapest prices.
However, these places cause more trouble then they are worth - bearing in mind what I do for a job, we often get called out to these establishment's, and the girl's are complaining that they have been assaulted by customer's.
We then offer them their right to make a formal statement of complaint, which they are all too happy to do until it comes to the point at which they are required to divulge their personal details (which is a matter of procedure, otherwise we are unable to log a complaint, the details are demanded by the public prosecutor).
At this point, they realise that divulging their name will result in their imminent discharge from the country that they have illegally immigrated into, and back to the life that, in the majority of cases, they were trying to escape from.
And that leaves us powerless to do anything. We can't arrest the person who assalted them without a statement of complaint, and the person who committed the offence in the first place gets away with it time and time again.
So, while brothel's do present a lot of pleasure for some men, I personally feel that it should be illegal in all countries so as to prevent the problem that some places currently have.
Of course, on the flip side of the coin, you have the argument of: "If we didn't have the brothels at all, what chance would there be for people who are leading miserable lives in other countries and just want to get out and make a fresh start somewhere else. Without prostitution, a lot of these people would have nothing to turn to"
It's a difficult situation.
WindDancer> Well, just because we disagree on... is that drugs or the death-penalty - doesn't mean we MUST disagree on everything. Srange notion.
Ush> (Faints) That MUST be a joke... Please, someone tell me that s a joke...
Big_Gay_Kirk> Okay, so you cant give me examples from the media of female violence towards men, because the media isn't interested. You MUST have your "me abuse men, too" sources from somewhere. How am I supposed to get a copy of Coalville Times?? You're making an assertion, you must supply the proof. Such as the proof of 25 % of phaedophiles being women (actual phaedophiles, not traffickers, or website oweners etc - but the ones who commit the crime). I do not believe you.
I never claimed you said it was a worse problem than men abusing women. I'm just looking for the relevance in connection with legalising prostitution or not. I've never claimed that women are perfect. What kind of nonsense comment is that?? "Oh, women are not perfect, and they sometimes abuse men, too..." SO??
Der_Soldat> Your "flip-side of the coin" doesnt hold. Quite a few of the women in question are not told beforehand, that they're to become prostitues. You think they'd have gone ahead and left their homes, if they'd bee told the truth? It's like saying: "Oh, if we didn't have prostituted Thai-children at all, who western phaedophiles visit when in Thailand, these children wouldn't have any way of making a living."
TheOmega> Not a strange notion, is just different views of opinions.
Big Gay Kirk> The media sells what they consider "hot stories" so that they can sell their news papers. If they can turn a story into a big case they can get away with anything. But a woman abusing a man? It could be possible, but by abuse do you mean mental verbal abuse? Or physical abuse? Either way abuse on woman is more common because certain men think that they deserve respect just because their males. Sad indeed. For some guys is easy to walk away from his wife and child (which is very disturbing), but a woman cannot just abandon his child. Maybe she can walk away from her man, but not from her child.