Sadaam: America's Prodigee?

Zelda Lestat

it could change for the better if america wasnt such a bully for one thing....

...oh how I love the fact that your quoting every American hating d!cks here in America and throughout the world.

Bully? Oh man! Do YOU even know of the good things America has done for other nations. Blab all you want to, believe all the twisted lies, you obviously don't know or CARE about what America does.

Bullying?
Like how we BULLIED the North Koreans into not invading South Korea during the Korean War, and how American troops are still guarding the 38th parallel still today? Or the FACT that South Korea is one of the RICHEST country in the world because they have a democratic government that compose of leaders choosen by the people, while North Korea is one of the POOREST country in the world becuase of their communist government where a dictator and small group of people rule over the mass.

Maybe you're talking about America BULLYING Serbia into stopping the genocide that they were commiting? Or maybe you're refering to when America enacted the Marshall Plan and BULLIED our way into spending billions of dollars fixing up most of Europe after WWII.

Most people have the impression that America is a big bully 'cause we're the only superpower left in the world. They ENVY (& I'm not lying) or HATE us because of that and other reasons. Look at the disaster in the recent Iran earthquake, Iran hates us yet when we offered to help, they accepted. They hated us and yet we offered to help and aid them. Every time there's a disaster in the world, Americans volunteer & the U.S. government aids that area of the world.

You don't know what you're talking about... Zelda Lestat. You wanna lable a country a bully, try Iraq (Gulf War), try North Korea (Korean War & currently), try Yugoslovia, try the Soviet Union, try Lebannon.

I think it's really funny how newsreaders refer to Saddam Hussein as "Saddam". It's a bit like Iraqi newsreaders going on air and saying "We were bombed today by George and Tony".

Originally posted by Zelda Lestat
Saddam Hussein ( I know i spelled that wrong,lay off) was heavily supported by the United States.He was given weapons,information, privileges, and basically allowed to torture the people of Iraq and Iran as he pleased.My question here is, why is it that now , after all this time, that now he is considered a criminal?

History sometimes takes wrong turns. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. You want an example? here I'll give you one.... The British Empire should have NEVER given freedom to India. Look at them now....India and Pakistan are aiming missiles at each other....don't you think that if the British had control over them there wouldn't be tensions between Pakistan and India?

See how political decisions can go wrong.....or maybe go right? The decisions our politicians make today might shape or wreck the future. What may seen to be the right thing to do....it could go wrong in the future.

edit note: It was a twisted sarcastic example don't take it too seriously. 🙄

Originally posted by Beyonder
They ENVY ... us because of that and other reasons. You don't know what you're talking about... Zelda Lestat. You wanna lable a country a bully, try Iraq (Gulf War), try North Korea (Korean War & currently), try Yugoslovia, try the Soviet Union, try Lebannon.

If somebody says something you disagree with you accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about. Bullying tactics.

America has a president (and to some extent a population) that thinks nothing of saying he/they/you have a god-given right to bring the American idea of democracy to the entire world. Whether they agree with it as "freedom" - whether they want it - or not.

You can't act shocked when it's perceived as bullying. Dress it up as fighting terrorism if you like - it looks like bulling to most people outside the US and a good many inside.

The idea that America is Envied is one you will only ever hear from one place - America. The sad truth is that America is looked down upon but just about every single other nation on the planet... unfairly in some respects as the USA has a rich cultural diversity and is loaded with potential: but it's easy to sneer at - partially because it's a big dumb bully of a nation.

Originally posted by Mr Zero
If somebody says something you disagree with you accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about. Bullying tactics.

America has a president (and to some extent a population) that thinks nothing of saying he/they/you have a god-given right to bring the American idea of democracy to the entire world. Whether they agree with it as "freedom" - whether they want it - or not.

You can't act shocked when it's perceived as bullying. Dress it up as fighting terrorism if you like - it looks like bulling to most people outside the US and a good many inside.

The idea that America is Envied is one you will only ever hear from one place - America. The sad truth is that America is looked down upon but just about every single other nation on the planet... unfairly in some respects as the USA has a rich cultural diversity and is loaded with potential: but it's easy to sneer at - partially because it's a big dumb bully of a nation.

Well theres first time for everything so....

👆 I absolutely agree with Zero.

Mr. Zero

If somebody says something you disagree with you accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about. Bullying tactics.

America has a president (and to some extent a population) that thinks nothing of saying he/they/you have a god-given right to bring the American idea of democracy to the entire world. Whether they agree with it as "freedom" - whether they want it - or not.

You can't act shocked when it's perceived as bullying. Dress it up as fighting terrorism if you like - it looks like bulling to most people outside the US and a good many inside.

The idea that America is Envied is one you will only ever hear from one place - America. The sad truth is that America is looked down upon but just about every single other nation on the planet... unfairly in some respects as the USA has a rich cultural diversity and is loaded with potential: but it's easy to sneer at - partially because it's a big dumb bully of a nation.

You act as if I agree with Bush and his belief of god-given right. But don't accuse America as a whole when you label us a BULLY.

Nah Saddam isn't a terrorist even though he terrorizes his own people and his fellow neighbors. 🙄

The idea that other nations don't ENVY America is one coming from people who hate America & a too proud to admit it. I'm not saying they envy everything but it isn't like there isn't any envy at all. They look down? The rest of the world hates us yet come crawling to us for help whenever a disaster arises. They pay lobbyist in our capital to invest money into their country. Yup they hate us alright but send tons of money to our capital in hopes that the returned favor is more money pumped into their economy.

Originally posted by Beyonder
You act as if I agree with Bush and his belief of god-given right. But don't accuse America as a whole when you label us a BULLY.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, on a personal or nationwide level. I'm trying to explain to you why your countries actions are so often referred to as bullying. I can tell the difference between the political actions of a nation and it's individuals. I visit the USA around 5 times a year and love it there, It's a truly remarkable place and ridiculously beautiful.

However - the media fed nationalistic propaganda that you see everywhere has (it seems to me) brainwashed a great deal of the population to the extent that they can't think objectively about the things the government does in their name.

Nah Saddam isn't a terrorist even though he terrorizes his own people and his fellow neighbors.

Forgive me for saying this, but thats a typical example of what we mean - before the war Saddam was linked with al qaeda and producing WOMD ... Now that this has been discredited alternative retroactive justification is being used. And the American response? "Hell - who cares WHY we did it- it's done". The only nation with factual and proven self admitted WOMD and a history of terrorism in the name of politics is in fact the USA.

And you wonder why we shake our heads?

The rest of the world hates us yet come crawling to us for help whenever a disaster arises.

You must be right - America is desperately seeking help from the UN to police the mess its made in Iraq. Crawling for help is something the US know a little about.

FIRST OF ALL-When I refer to 'America' I'm talking more about the government than anything else.I'm not going to critize every single citizen of th U.S like that, mainly because I DO live in California after all.And yes, America is a bully.We are considered a 'super power' in the world because of oure industrial wealth, yes,but our interfernce with other countries only makes things worse the majority of the time, yet the government keeps interfering,when obviously it isnt helping anything.

by the way, thank you very much Mr.Zero.

people who assume HUGE roles...make HUGE mistakes.

Bush did a great job rallying and leading our country after 9/11, but his decision afterwards have been poor. I support our troops for the job they are doing in Iraq, but I'd be lying if I told you I was glad that we choseIraq as our target.

I think Saddam should have been removed from power a long time ago, and truthfully, i'm happy him and his sons are out of Iraq. I DO wish changed would be more openly accepted by the Iraqi people...but as it's been stated time and time again....change can't be forced upon a people. People have to embrace change in order for it to work.

Mr. Zero

However - the media fed nationalistic propaganda that you see everywhere has (it seems to me) brainwashed a great deal of the population to the extent that they can't think objectively about the things the government does in their name.

Then please DON'T say America. Refer specifically to the US government, Bush, or the US media. The reason I took offense is because to me America is representative of all that is American: people and history. Tony Blair gets the blame when it comes to British involvement, yet AMERICA gets blamed when it comes to U.S. involvement and not Bush. If you hate our government, point that out instead of America. And if you've read my post, my address was mainly in defense of America not BUSH.

However, the media didn't brainwash anything. If anything, it's Bush and his administration.

Forgive me for saying this, but thats a typical example of what we mean - before the war Saddam was linked with al qaeda and producing WOMD ... Now that this has been discredited alternative retroactive justification is being used. And the American response? "Hell - who cares WHY we did it- it's done". The only nation with factual and proven self admitted WOMD and a history of terrorism in the name of politics is in fact the USA.

And you wonder why we shake our heads?

Don't know where you're getting that quote about us not CARING. Obviously we do since they're has been large numbers of protest/demonstration. HOWEVER, did YOU know & the PUBLIC OF YOUR COUNTRY & MEDIA (not your government) know that there wasn't WMD or an Al Qaeda link to Saddam BEFORE THE WAR? It's easy to criticize America and say all this afterwards, but did YOU yourself know or YOUR PUBLIC know? If you didn't, wouldn't you say that it would've been easy for your government and media to slowly feed you this information that Saddam had WMD and Al Qaeda was link to Saddam. (Also note that the US intelligence reported that there was evidence between Saddam and Al Qaeda. So is America not suppose to believe in our own intelligence. Or should we have believed France, who had economic treaties with Saddam's Iraq?) Additionally, what should we do now? Leave?

And it's Bush and his administration that's trying to dodge the fact that there isn't WMD destroying.

America has WMD but so does France, Britain, and others. However, we aren't going after them nor is France or Britain going after us because neither side has threatened to nuke other nations if we didn't get what we wanted. If any of these democratic nations tried to, the people would storm the capital and drag that elected official out of office and put them on trial. To carry out a nuke attack, they would also need the willingness of those around them, which I highly doubt would be willing too, and you know that.

You KNOW that if Bush, Chirac, or Blair wanted to nuke another country, they'd never be able to or would get away with it if they for some reason was able to launch a nuke. However, if Saddam or Kim Jung Il wanted to nuke another country, you think the people would have the power to over throw them - or even oppose their will? If we were dangerous, the UN would've gone after any of these countries. Thing is, America, France, and Britain are not LIKELY going to nuke another country unless it's our only option. Can you really say the same about North Korea or Iraq, possibly even Iran?

Yes, the world would be a better place without these weapons, but non of these countries are willing to give it up. And since this is the case, would you rather nukes be in the hands of countries with elected officials or psychopathic dictators who care nothing about their people & no one who can SUCCESSFULLY oppose the governments control? Would you rather give a gun to a cop (who you know can atleast try to keep the peace) or hand it to a criminal - who you know won't give a DAMN about people's lives? If you HAD to pick one, which would you rather pick? (And no, I'm not saying America is the worlds police.)

You must be right - America is desperately seeking help from the UN to police the mess its made in Iraq. Crawling for help is something the US know a little about.

Funny. Thing is, Bush is crawling to the UN because the American public NOW knows alot of what he said was shit. Election is also coming up and so he's busting his ass to ask for help - as that's what the American public WANTS. Hell, even BEFORE the war, American's wanted Bush to get other nations involved in dealing with Iraq. America isn't crawling, it's Bush and his administration. 😉

Zelda Lestat

And yes, America is a bully.We are considered a 'super power' in the world because of oure industrial wealth, yes,but our interfernce with other countries only makes things worse the majority of the time, yet the government keeps interfering,when obviously it isnt helping anything.

We ARE a super power. It's not US who are claiming this; a fact is a fact. The world ITSELF considers us a super power as they considered the Soviet Union a super power. It's not just industrial wealth, if so than Japan, Germany, Great Britain, France, etc. would be considered a super power. It's the fact that our military power stretches beyond our land; our missiles can reach other nations; our aircraft carrier can project our power anywhere in the world; we're the only nation to have trident submarines that can nuke any country if they were to attack mainland America; our natural resources are more abundant compared to others.

And if our governments didn't interfere, Hitler and Facism would've conquered most of the world or the Soviet Union and communism would've. If we didn't interfere in Yugoslovia, the genocide of muslims would've suceeded. Where was most of Europe when this genocide happened in their part of the world?

Isolationism got us nowhere...but Pearl Harbor and the extension of WWI and WWII.

you know, I might just start another thread on the whole Marxist thing, because I truly don't see what the problem is with it-(than again, I could be wrong as communism isnt my subject) and yes agree that America isnt just as big as it is from factories, etc alone.But you see the thing is, America has had more failures from interferring than victories, and I for one am being to consider the credibilty of the theory that America's-(excuse me, the government) invovlement with putting Hitler's third reich to rest was nothing but propaganda.

Zelda Lestat

I for one am being to consider the credibilty of the theory that America's-(excuse me, the government) invovlement with putting Hitler's third reich to rest was nothing but propaganda.

???what do you mean by "nothing but propaganda?

Blair gets the blame when it comes to British involvement, yet AMERICA gets blamed when it comes to U.S. involvement and not Bush.

As far as was noticible with out media, America(as in the people), before the war, didn't move on any grand scale to show it's disapproval. Britain did.

Also, most people I have talked to disagree with Bush, not America.

America has WMD but so does France, Britain, and others. However, we aren't going after them nor is France or Britain going after us because neither side has threatened to nuke other nations if we didn't get what we wanted.

Britain and France don't have WMD! Like Zero said, the US is the only country that has been proven to have mass stocks of WMD. Admittedly, other countries do as well, but don't try and say Britain and France do!

(note, I said considering..i dont really believe it) theres this book in my school library that talks about Hitler and the holocasut and it said that many of the United Nations have come to believ that America wasnt fighting the war to help stop Hitler and help free the Jews that were captured, but they were doing it for money.

(please dont bite my head off, it was in a book)

Trickster

Britain and France don't have WMD! Like Zero said, the US is the only country that has been proven to have mass stocks of WMD. Admittedly, other countries do as well, but don't try and say Britain and France do!

France and Britain don't have nukes? 'Cause they DO.

Zelda Lestat

(note, I said considering..i dont really believe it) theres this book in my school library that talks about Hitler and the holocasut and it said that many of the United Nations have come to believ that America wasnt fighting the war to help stop Hitler and help free the Jews that were captured, but they were doing it for money.

(please dont bite my head off, it was in a book)

not going to bite your head off but what money were they refering to? How would the U.S. get money from WWII? And what book is it?

Originally posted by Trickster
Britain and France don't have WMD! Like Zero said,

WOAH! - backtrack... I never said that: I said the only country to have WOMD *AND* a proven and admitted policy of using terrorism to affect political change is the mighty US of A.

However I cant even say that anymore - because somebody prefers to confuse the argument about "America" referring to the people rather than the government rather than address that point.

In my book if you have to sidetrack the point of a discussion into the rhetoric - you cease to be worth talking to.

Originally posted by Zelda Lestat
America wasnt fighting the war to help stop Hitler and help free the Jews that were captured,

Despite what anyone might claim retroactively the motives were - it's safe to say that nobody could ever hope to claim America joined the war to stop the rise of fascism and stop the holocaust... that was just a by-product.

As you say - another topic.

Where does Britain keep it's nukes, then?

^Me, interested. Always thought we never had any.

France, Britain, Soviet Union/Russia, USA, China all have nukes. These are also the Big Five of the UN counsel, thus it's next to near impossible to get rid of nukes from the world.

As for where Britain keeps there nukes, not sure. Then again, I'm not sure where America stocks ours either.