original defenders vs fantastic four

LOL! FF versus, original Defenders. Give me a break. This is almost as bad as Wolvie versus The Living Tribunal. Let me break it down.

Strange takes out invisible woman. She is the strongest member (she's taken on the rest of the FF before and nearly killed everyone) and her support role makes the FF Stand up against much more than they normally could. Namor is smart, if brash at times, But he'd take out the King, and ruin any back up Reed could muster. Hulk versus Thing, sure Thing's had his moments, but Strange'd be done so fast he'd be able to help with this, if not already providing support for the rest of the team (remember the FF usually rely on strange for support versus magic.) After this it turns into a mop em up. Not even worth 3 pages in a comic book.

You really think a stretchy guy (no matter how smart he is,) a fire guy (who's never been able to hurt any of the Defenders.) A tough guy (who isn't as tough as anyone on the Defenders.) and an invisible woman could take the Defenders!

Which by the way is comprised of the Sorcerer Supreme, Earth's first and mightiest mutant, Weilder of the Power Cosmic, and The world's most endless supply of raw power?

Namor is not the first mutant, he is the first mutant with his own comic book...and he has been beatin in single combat by both the Thing and Reed Richards...you say strange would dispatch invisible woman, yet you did not elaborate, just said he would beat her. Surfer and many other herlads and superior cosmics have been thrashed by the FF, it doesnt matter if surfer weilds the power cosmic or not...It takes at least Watcher level power to break sues field...surfer cannot do it. Namor invulnerable to Nova flame? "Your power is far DEADLIER than I ever imagined" - Galactus as Torch was going nova...Namor could not withstand the weakest of torch's flame. Strange would also have to protect himself from torch, however I think Torch would beat him the same way he beat Graviton. There is no use in trying to beat the Hulk in a physical battle...the avengers, x-men, and FF have all failed. However, when Thing was leader of the FF he beat the Hulk, then a robot Doom created to imitate the Hulk, and then beat the Real Hulk again...the FF also beat the Hulk in his own comic book, the Hulk escaped because he was talking trash to the Thing. Thing broke his restraints free and fought him again. The FF are the only team who can take the Hulk...however, in a fight with multiple enemies including the Hulk, Reed would probable just take him down the same way Doom did

i think silver surfer or hulk could break sue´s force field, i know how powerful she is, but eventually his force field would break.
about the fight against hulk, sue could make a force bubble inside hulks head, he could not die, but he would be out of combat for some time.
still think the defenders can win.

"My force field has held up against Galactus" - Invisible Woman fighting Doctor Doom with the power of a watcher

Originally posted by Wynndar
Namor is not the first mutant, he is the first mutant with his own comic book...and he has been beatin in single combat by both the Thing and Reed Richards...you say strange would dispatch invisible woman, yet you did not elaborate, just said he would beat her. Surfer and many other herlads and superior cosmics have been thrashed by the FF, it doesnt matter if surfer weilds the power cosmic or not...It takes at least Watcher level power to break sues field...surfer cannot do it. Namor invulnerable to Nova flame? "Your power is far DEADLIER than I ever imagined" - Galactus as Torch was going nova...Namor could not withstand the weakest of torch's flame. Strange would also have to protect himself from torch, however I think Torch would beat him the same way he beat Graviton. There is no use in trying to beat the Hulk in a physical battle...the avengers, x-men, and FF have all failed. However, when Thing was leader of the FF he beat the Hulk, then a robot Doom created to imitate the Hulk, and then beat the Real Hulk again...the FF also beat the Hulk in his own comic book, the Hulk escaped because he was talking trash to the Thing. Thing broke his restraints free and fought him again. The FF are the only team who can take the Hulk...however, in a fight with multiple enemies including the Hulk, Reed would probable just take him down the same way Doom did

I only stated Namor's little catch phrase to show that he was earth's mightest mutant. Although thing and Reed have beaten Namor, no members of the FF have any defense against the arcane (as has been shown several times. This is why i stated that Strange could dispatch of Sue quickly, force fields or not. Sue is also the one of the biggest reasons that the FF have been able to stand against so many opponents stronger than them. Yes thing has beaten the Hulk and Namor. But Hulk has also beaten thing and Namor regular would go Toe to Toe with the Hulk. Reed wouldn't have a chance to take anyone out, not with strange around. As for Strange needing to protect himself from Torch, this is Sorcerer Supreme Strange we're talking about, a man who has gone toe to toe with Fing Fang Foom amongst several others far more powerful than him.

I agree with MERCILOUS, this shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. The original Defenders are in a completely different league than the FF. The only edge that FF has is Reed's intelligence. In the end it wouldn't be much next to the combined powers of the Sorcerer Supreme and the Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by Wynndar
"My force field has held up against Galactus" - Invisible Woman fighting Doctor Doom with the power of a watcher

i know what you mean, i´m just saying that eventually it would break, she can´t stood up forever, of course that against surfer she would be able to held up much more time.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I only stated Namor's little catch phrase to show that he was earth's mightest mutant. Although thing and Reed have beaten Namor, no members of the FF have any defense against the arcane (as has been shown several times. This is why i stated that Strange could dispatch of Sue quickly, force fields or not. Sue is also the one of the biggest reasons that the FF have been able to stand against so many opponents stronger than them. Yes thing has beaten the Hulk and Namor. But Hulk has also beaten thing and Namor regular would go Toe to Toe with the Hulk. Reed wouldn't have a chance to take anyone out, not with strange around. As for Strange needing to protect himself from Torch, this is Sorcerer Supreme Strange we're talking about, a man who has gone toe to toe with Fing Fang Foom amongst several others far more powerful than him.

No defense from the Arcane? Ben Grimm recently drank Diablo's potion that would turn him into some kind of god Diablo worshipped...the other members had their own way to defend against it...Grimm just drank it. He the proceeded to escape his bonds and broke Diablo's spell...at the end of the comic the only explanation was: "well shit"...The Thing was never negatively affected by embibing the potion...The FF have beaten Diablo, Belasco, Mephisto, and plenty of other arcane types...Reed wouldnt be able to take anyone out? why not, because u say so? what kind of argument is that...u havent posted any opinions with past comic events while I post events every time. Reed would could take out each one of those foes because he either already has or has bested plenty of others. Im aware of Strange's past battles...but mentioning he beat powerful foes doesnt help your argument against the FF, because no one has beaten the kind of foes they have in terms of frequency or intensity

Originally posted by Wynndar
No defense from the Arcane? Ben Grimm recently drank Diablo's potion that would turn him into some kind of god Diablo worshipped...the other members had their own way to defend against it...Grimm just drank it. He the proceeded to escape his bonds and broke Diablo's spell...at the end of the comic the only explanation was: "well shit"...The Thing was never negatively affected by embibing the potion...The FF have beaten Diablo, Belasco, Mephisto, and plenty of other arcane types...Reed wouldnt be able to take anyone out? why not, because u say so? what kind of argument is that...u havent posted any opinions with past comic events while I post events every time. Reed would could take out each one of those foes because he either already has or has bested plenty of others. Im aware of Strange's past battles...but mentioning he beat powerful foes doesnt help your argument against the FF, because no one has beaten the kind of foes they have in terms of frequency or intensity

Listen, you said it yourself earlier. The FF has taken on many poweful types including heralds of galactus and so on. But this is one at a time. NO way they can compete with FOUR powerhouses. So Reed's gotten smart on some of his opponents, of course that's what he does. But there's no way that's gonna happen with Strange around. The FF have resistances to arcane? Diablo's a chemist, not a magician. and they've been plenty wooped by the arcane. Reed's the first to admit he knows nothing about it. As shown in that one book where they fight Doom after he acquires his new powers (i can't remember the name right now.) Disect this one by one, or group it all together all you like, more often than not, it takes the whole FF to take on Namor, More often than not it takes the Whole FF to take on the Hulk. The FF doesn't come close. You are clearly underestimating the Defenders. They've taken on things that the FF would be wise to run the heck away from.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Diablo's a chemist, not a magician.

Your wrong dude, Diablo is an Alchemist. There is a big difference.

Fair enough.

Bump 🙂

Hulk soloes.
Silver Surfer soloes.
Srange soloes.
Namor beat everyone but Sue.

The four of them at the same time? It's an horrible stomp.