Re: What is real?
Originally posted by The OmegaI don't know for sure it's real 😕 there is no way to prove it
Ah, late Saturday night. What better time to get philosophical.So let’s see how each of you would answer Morpheus’ question. How do you KNOW that the world is real?
but SOMETHING must be real, if this world isn't, to create the illusion of this world. Even if it is only an illusion creating this world, then something, somewhere, MUST be 'real' in order to give this world.
😕 I've confused myself, never mind
Short answer is that you don't.
You think a dream is real only until you wake from it. Whilst in it however your brain tells you that it's real. Applying that logic to the so-called real world, it's real only for as long as your in it. I think i have heard that a religion (but i can't remember which) states that this is a world of illusion and not real at all.
I've said this before but if your brain believes that while your dreaming that it's real life, then perhaps we are equally wrong to believe the world is real whilst were in it.
Metamorphisis> An interesting answer. But I guess it’s essentially the only truth there exists. MY reality – as it possesses continuation. For all I know I could be in a coma, or at an insane asylum just THINKING that this is real.
Eleveninches> Welll… Reminds me of Morpheus sitting with a battery and asking Neo :”What is real?” Perceptions can be deceiving.
The Anomaly> But the good Descartes is making an assumption. A good one, though. Let us ASSUME that what we all perceive and can agree upon is real. And that it can be subjected to rational and logical analysis. Given THAT assumption…
Dave123> Ahhh… very good. I think I understand what you mean. Even if this IS an illusion, something MUST be there to CREATE the illusion. But then… isn’t that assuming that “real=tangiable”??? Does anyone have a better way of wording this??
I’m confused too now.
I could be a right pain and introduce a load of Putnam into this and point out that none of you can coherently express the idea that this world is not real...
... but I'll stay simple instead, and go with the Matrix answer. This world is real- I know that by instinct, and I trust my instincts.
That this is a very Star Wars answer is completely coincidence- honest...
Hilary Putnam, Mathematician, highly advanced linguistic expert, and modern day philosopher, who pointed out the flaws in the Descartes Evil Demon/Brain in a vat scenario by pointing out that logically speaking we are unable to coherently talk about such things. Unfortunately it gets rather complex from there, but it is based around the attachment between a concept and a peson referring to that concept- or more importing, 'failing to refer' to it, which is what we do whenever we try and talk about any reality outside our own without having experienced it.
Incidentally, this is a philosophy the Matrix esposes- hence "No-one can be told what the Matrix is." That line makes no sense in isolation- WHY can Neo not be told? This whole thing about referral is the explanation.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I could be a right pain and introduce a load of Putnam into this and point out that none of you can coherently express the idea that this world is not real...... but I'll stay simple instead, and go with the Matrix answer. This world is real- I know that by instinct, and I trust my instincts.
That this is a very Star Wars answer is completely coincidence- honest...
What if you trust wrong?
What kind of a question is that??
Its just a stupid "what if" question, if i trust my mother you could say the same thing, if i answer a instead of b in a multiple choice question you could say pretty much the same thing.
And there basically is no wrong about this, if he finds comfort and truth within his trust of instincts then there is no wrong.
Or worse yet you could actually be dead living in the after life and not know it? The usual argument would be that if you were dead you would remember dying. But then how many people remember being born, does mean you weren't?
But then even accepting that, does being dead mean being unreal? To be or not to be?
Originally posted by neo2
if the world was fake, a good majority of the world would've figured it out by now....then we would all be free minds
If what you said was to be right, I don't think that many people would know... maybe the governments of the world know but I don't think they would be smart enough to tell the people and cause panic... instead they would use this for their advantage.
That is reflected with the similar question "Are we alone?" No one has yet answered that but people think powerful countries know the answer... but those governments won't tell the people.
You got me thinking deeply there buddy 😮💨
To me REAL means everything.
Everything means reality, dreams, and death.
Reality means everything we see, touch, smell, hear, and taste. It does not matter if it is fake, as someone said it before, someone has to know what real is in order to produce any illusion.
Dreams are not real to us, but as someone said it earlier too, it could be the real truth and we are only allowed to enter it when we are tired and sleep.
Death could even be real... it is but I mean the real world we live in. Maybe we are a dream world and in order to enter rthe real one we have to go through life and when we die we enter it.
If I confused you I'm sorry but that is all I can think of what real means. It, to me, means everything, either fake... or REAL.
"PERCEPTION IS 90% OF REALITY" 😮💨
Originally posted by Mordecai
What kind of a question is that??Its just a stupid "what if" question, if i trust my mother you could say the same thing, if i answer a instead of b in a multiple choice question you could say pretty much the same thing.
And there basically is no wrong about this, if he finds comfort and truth within his trust of instincts then there is no wrong.
I am sorry but i am not satisfied with his answer or i was not able to understand that.