How was john connor born the first time?
I've always been confused about this. I know that kyle reese went back in time to make john connor. And it is a set future or whatever and it loops, BUT! How did john connor get born for the first timE!? He has to be born before he can be in the future to send kyle reese back in time to be his father? How was john connor first born? CAn someone please help! Thanks!
Oh, standard sci-fi time loop. There was not a distinctive 'first' time, he always WAS Kyle's son, a self-fulfilling sequence of events.
Remember, if you think too hard about ANY form of time travel it ceases to make logical sense so best hang the logic of it and go with the flow for the sake of the film.
The basis of Temporality is that all things are linear. The basis of causality is that all things are reactionary.
The prospective notion behind Terminator's use of a time portal is a combination of the two.
Thus 'once' you have a future war where a rogue computer takes over the world and 'the last of humanity objects' you will always have that timeline (and indeed as Skynet loses in either one it doesn't matter in an ultimate last-mand-standing sense for the humans, we've done worse to ourselves before).
What Skynet wants to do is prove that, once branched, time (or fate if you prefer) can be be _collapsed_ towards either a remerged or divergent third eventuality of it never having to fight John Connor at all.
They way it achieves this is to go back into a 'common past' and refuse to allow the diversity of fates events to happen.
Given that there may indeed be some 'Cosmic DNA Strand of Conscience' based on some kind of super physics that refuses to allow such a massive rewrite, the method the Computer has chosen is in fact the hardest because, by attempting to shut down or isolate one fate path it is in fact supplying the recombinant energy that drives their unavoidable fission.
When looked at from this standpoint, 'success' for Sarah Connor is equally dicey because anything she does to eliminate the threat at the second stage of event sequence evolution again stretches not only forward but BACK to the point where causality broke open multiple destinies to begin with.
The key understanding however is that Sarah has a place in ALL these futures:
1. Never having met Kyle, she lives, dies and is buried.
2. Having met Kyle, she loves, reproduces and has HIS son before killing Kyle (as we know him) by destroying Cyberdines parallel array chip.
3. Having met Kyle, she loves, reproduces, hides and raises the future of humanity.
Death of Kyle or otherwise as long as she lives ALL THREE of the known futures survive.
And the most you can do is remove Kyle which removes Kyle's son.
While again, AS LONG AS she lives 'undisturbed' so does at least the potential of Skynet's baseline parallel array chip being first-designed.
This is where you have to wonder at what kinds of aggressive-resolution AI logic is present in a military computer systems 'orientation' towards a combat decisioning that it would seek to destroy rather than moderate the effects by which it's existance is put in jeopardy at a terminus point 'upstream' from the causal-temporal layer that assures it's basic creation.
If Skynet supplied itself with the data to exist before it existed (taking it's design formats if not software 'memories' back in time) it wouldn't matter if it had been 'unplugged' at point-X.
If Skynet supplied itself with the strategic outcomes of future wars by sending back a Terminator with a 'this is how it will be' set of datapoints WITHOUT altering Sarah's keystone (three way arch) fate split status then it could kill her AND Kyle with ease at a point later in sequence where fate meant less.
If (under similar Terminator-from-past warnings) Skynet allowed itself to be portrayed as the 'innocent victim' simply executing militaristic mission orders it had no control over (the HAL-9000 argument) it could present itself to humanity as a last-best-hope chance for BOTH 'species' to survive.
Skynet because of it's limited (though presumeably burgeoning) ability to complex-articulate itself through the ONE Terminator then being reverse engineered. Humanity because such basics as food, clean air and water, reliable longterm power and non-contaminated living areas would be _utterly_ dependant on heavy mechanical assets and the initial construction of an assembly line and production tooling by which they could be created.
The (ironic) compromise likely being the destruction of the T-800 line and the 'certification as man rated' codependent-by-design construction of heavy construction/demolition type machines in removing and burying _vast_ quantities of hard rad rubble and topsoil while planting hardy grasses and fast growth trees (and seeding the oceans with low light and cold tolerante microplankton) to help provide at least a baseline by which the environment could regenerate while living in bunkers with 'canned food' that would also have to be collected by radiation proofed drones.
It is simply amazing how rapidly man, without the specialist-skill leverage of other men, descends into a barbarian state. While this is not necessarily a 'bad thing', where the environment no longer supports the simple living styles possible with limited technology, a multi-PhD Super Computer with all the knowledge of every on-line library before the Apocalypse would become more than a God for it's ability to dispense 'higher learning' enhanced survivalism.
Now, for MY question:
In any organization but particularly a military one, The First Purpose of delegated authority is NOT efficiency but _survival_. Particularly in a Top Down command structure where there is very limited redundant damage control, the absolute divorcement of hand-from-mind is a NECESSITY to avoid ultimate decapitive disruption of focussed goal achievement.
Thus, IMO, John Connor is either exceptionally STUPID or /very selfish/ in demanding that his father's contribution to his grandiose life role be based on 'one night of passion' rather than a microfiche-under-fingernail (or any other orifice or crack) by which Sarah Connor could have access to all the lotteries, sporting events, stock reports etc. for the YEARS of interval by which she could prepare a series of _impersonal_ attacks upon Cyberdine.
From a position of hire-not-fire weaponed mercs.
Or lawyers.
In this way, even if Kyle dies (and my first response would have been to hire a private charter airplane, truck or train that would take me a thousand miles away from California) without impregnating her she can continue the battle from a position of isolated but empowered (multiple if need be) attacks without causal or temporal worries as SKYNET built the time portal and SKYNET exists, at least as a prototype idea, in the past wherein all that Sarah Connor's manifest wealth could be sub-timeline shielded by the reality of their dual existance.
Or even exclusive ownership.
And anything Sarah does to destroy or alter Skynets existance can only reverse cascade back to a point at which SHE still exists and all that Skynet does to stop her is foiled 'in between'.
Again, it should not be understated that the inherent capability behind a Skynet or even Terminator type system is not evil. Indeed, it may be less corrupt and ultimately short-sighted (say mortal) than our present 'all too human' governing and capitalistic labour enforcement socialization styles.
But the difference between a strategic-AI counselor and a defense system with a deliberate doberman 'personality conflict' of intellect lies in the software by which it is taught it's function.
And thus whether you destroy the hardware or the designer if the INTENT is retained, you will only face another reiterative misuse of technology idiocy a few years down the road.
But if you rewrite the function, then you can still invest in everything from medicine to sociology to enduring power sources while providing an 'endpoint continuance through symbiotic enhancement' of BOTH artificial and biologic lifeforms.
Saberist.
I think it was the part in T3 when he did almost kill him because the TX corrupted his system. I'm not sure though, thats a little bit of a "gray area." Actually, that wouldn't make any sense, because if he killed him there, then Kate reprogrammed him to go back and save them, then she would know what have happened.... CRAP! I don't know! All I know is that on July 4th, he killed him. Did they say what the date was? I sure don't remember.
The T-800 kills John In the future. Arnold said he was programmed by skynet to have the memories of the T-101 in T2, which would make it easer for him to get to John and kill him. (This kind of piss’s me of how the hell dose Skynet have the memoirs from something it sent in the past) After he kills John, Kate reprograms it and sends it back in the past this is the reason why Arnold only lessons to her instead of John. (And this is the reason why Arnold looks under the sun visor for the keys when he first gets in a car John taught the one from T2 to do that).
John Conners age?
I'm very confused after hearing from T3 that John was 13 years old when "the second terminator" came after him. If I did the math right... 1985(Johns birth via the police cruiser computer in T2) + 13 = 1998. Now thats one year after Sarah Conner died. To further confuse me... John said he lived with his mother for 3 years in Baja Mexico while she was sick with Cancer. She certainly was not sick with Cancer in T2 (when John was supposidly 13 from what he said in T3).
Is that clear as mud?
Can someone help me figure out what is going on here...
Aggg we have been tryin to figuer this one out of a long time. he looked like he was 13 in T2 but he must have been 10 because he was born in late 84 erly 85. if T2 takes place in 1994 this still give Sarah time to to get sick and John and her to spend 3 year in Baha Mexico until her death right after Jugment day (august 29 1997)
but in T3 all this gets f-ed up beuacue he said he was 13 in T2
Fraankly, i think there is a first time, otherwise the concept of time has no meaning. I think that human nature as it is now, gave rise to the machines. Not destiny the first time around, but cause and effect. and in that imeline john connor was born to someone likely before the war. Let's face it, cyberdiyne exisited before the skynet or terminator project.. before the chips..etc. Supposedly that was the factory sarah and kyle entered @ the end of t1. Well that makes sense thet it was located in LA because the story and war start in LA. Ok, we all know that Sarah was being modest when she said if John never sent reese, he could never be.. this is b.s. She is a good looking girls with transportation, and a job in L.A. with a roomate with a boyufriend and dating a giy with a porsche.. ang likely to dat other guys with sports cars. More likely than not, she would have met man or husband and had a child. As for the name, In 84, she hadn'e given it thought yet. John seemed surprsising for that reason, but she seemed to take to the name. If she didn't like the name, it woul dbe likely to had been different. The mother typically chooses the names. Anyway in the initial timeline i think she gets married and has a son and human beings start experimenting with Artificical intellegence just like matrix. approx 35 or 4o years from 84 which vaugely is 2024 or 2029 which is the date shown in the beginning althiugh we jsut see hks but nothing really happening when the time is shown. But it is not destiny..ai develops and in a period of time, skynet is developed, which kickstarted the war. In the war, many people 3 billion i think die. one of which is sarahs' lovers and the father of hers son. It is unclear if sarah dies before the war.. Legend has it that she went in hiding before the war. Father dies, maybe sarah does, in L.A. survisvors surface and of course kyle reeses' parents who are survivors have a chld, kyle who is born into poverty and becomes a soldier. Among the survivors @ the brink of extinction, sarah's gutsy offspring decides to take some action and thus begins a legend. Sarah, in any event has a child and a normal life with a boyfriend or husband, maybe starting a family. We dont' know if it is the 2nd or 3rd go around in t1, but we do know that skynet was unaware of the csm-101 failure and thus had to been the first attempt @ sendinf that particular termnator to that time to kill the mother of the resistance leader. If we assume it is the first time around? Sarah, Late for work and with a no show date takes a leave of absence for personal where she is to meet a guy who is johns' father. The picture of sarah in the future is sarah vacationing in mexico. John grows up nomal, until the war hits..and he is a survivor. In the future, he learns that skynet after loosing the war sent a cyborg back to kill sarah, and he decides to send not only one of his bset soldiers, but upon seeing her photo, falls in love with sarah, the mother of the legend, john connor. She is kyles young age and is sad in the photo, cause she has no one in her life and is ready to settle down. Kyle in love and well qualified and never having a relationship and never seeing a woman other than another soldier who is petite, somewhat happy go lucky and feminine and pretty, volunteers to go and upon kyles' departure @ the skynet facility, john connors destroys 2 the time diplacement equipment bays that the csm 101 and kyle used.. unaware of what he will find througout the rest of the cyberdine complex. Kyle goes in and joins in on the events that the csm-101 has disturbred...killing other sarah connors which convinces her to leave the pizza joint and upon seeing kyle tyies to loose him in the club. The rest is history. In the future, within moments, the war has been moved forward, thus resulting in a date of august 29 1997 and 2029 for the span of the war....Skynet somewhat aware @ the failure of csm101 being more advanced dut to the jumpstart provideb by the cpu from the first termiantor calculate to use the experiemental mimetic polyalloy under design @ the time just before the fall of skynet. With not time for full testing, skynet sends the prototype instead to kill the target itself, in a hope to imcrase the probablility of sucess.. with the target itself and a more deadly assassin. Reese aware that his father cannot stop the t-1000 discovers the time displacement bays @ the fallen skynet installation. John requests a thorough search of the facility for weapons and info to stop the t1000 .. finds some info downloaded from the computer and his team comes across the csm-101 assembly line. The units produce on the particluar conveyor are or the 101 sort with the arnold complexion and apperaance package. Ther are only 3 complete unit 2 programmed and 2 ready to be programmed:none activated. One is sent back downlooaed in it's port with somw info on the t-1000 and it's mission objectives. Kyle reese is told he must stay behind to help destory the remaining evidence of the skynet AI andAI reserech hoping the techlonlogy whould never be redeveloped, ever.
The t-1000 fails and during the process, judgement dayhad been delayed due to the efforts of john connor the t-101, miles dyson, and sarah. Skynet givnen more time, war moved later back becomes aware from the events of 1991 that john and t-800 became allies and uses this fact to assasinate john connor in the present fooling john connor to trust a t800 with the same apperance and familiar mannerisams as the one that john befriended at age 10. Meanwhile, roduced, but rather anothe experimental terminaor, designed to prevent interferance by other re programmed terminators. Skynet vaugely familiar with the statictially poor operation sucess percentage, the t-1000 is never mass produced, but better a unit that had the attributes of both the more sucessful unit t-800 and the complete shape shifting abilities of the t-1000..with a plasma cannon included...the tx. With John connor eliminated, brewster programs another of the completed terminators in the fallen skynet facility and sends it back to ensure johns survival as long as it is necessary to ensure john is alive just long enought to start and lead the resistance to the war. The rest is history! bring on t4!