Silmarillon fans Melkor is the greatest Valar

Started by Mandos1 pages

Silmarillon fans Melkor is the greatest Valar

Melkor was truly the greatest of the Valar, possessed by greed and had an evil heart. Do you think that, against his own will, while making evil, he actually contributed to the good devellopement of Beleriand and the world of free creatures?

As Iluvatar said Melkors acts only led/added to the full glory of his plan

Originally posted by Darth Sauron
As Iluvatar said Melkors acts only led/added to the full glory of his plan

✅ ✅
After all, without evil, there could be no good 🙂
I think it's hard to say he had an "evil heart"... depends on what you define as 'evil'. For Melkor it probably seemed evil or just stupid what the Valar did 😬 ... ok, he was greedy (as his name says), and a lil too proud maybe, but others were that, too... they just weren't as mighty as him and hence not seen as that evil 🙂

He was surely the most powerful of the Valar though... I mean, look at their wars, Melkor holds all Middle-earth while the other fourteen Valar are hiding somewhere on a mini-island 🙄

Related >
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294455 (Valar discussion, mainly about Melkor)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293986 (Melkor and Aule)

His real name wasnt melkor if you think about it.
Thats just what the valar decided to call him, and you cant trust them.

After all, history is written by the winning side, you dont really think sam hurt, or even met, shelob do you?

And that massive orc army....yeah, it was like three of them ✅

Originally posted by Darth Sauron
His real name wasnt melkor if you think about it.
Thats just what the valar decided to call him, and you cant trust them.

That's what I often wonder about 😛 after all, the names are all Quenya (in this case Melko < *Mailiko < *Mil-ik 'greed'😉... what if it would have been Melkor's servants to choose the names? 😖

And that massive orc army....yeah, it was like three of them ✅

😆 !!

What i wonder about is saurons real name
wheres my thread?
*goes searching*

Originally posted by Darth Sauron
What i wonder about is saurons real name
wheres my thread?
*goes searching*

Depends on the definition of 'real' 😛

Originally posted by shadowy_blue
Sauron
Annatar
Gorthaur
Gorgor
Thû
Zigur
Necromancer,
Lieutenant of Morgoth
The Lord of the Rings
The Dark Lord
The Black Hand
The Great Red Eye
The Ring-Maker
Lord of Gifts
The Dark Power
Lord of Mordor

Originally posted by Eöl Moriedhel
Of course Thû is take from the early, Gorthû.
Thauron, you missed.
The Enemy, and also Erekan you missed.
Erekan was an early name of Saurons' whence he was still a servent of Aule.
And Turon-not sure exactly what that means, but it was like Erekan.

[Thû < *THUS is I guess the older form, not Gorthaur]
Originally posted by Exabyte
Erekan? 😑 *that's* news to me

Turon is related to túre which means "victory" or "lordship"; túro in sindarin is something like "Lord" or "Master".
Would make sense as a name of Sauron ^^ though I dont think I ever heard it before

Other names -
Wolf-Sauron, Sauro, Súro, Sûr, The Magician, The Sorceror, Zigur ^^, in old english "Malsca" or "Saweron"; also called Gorsodh or just "The King"


... all of them 'real' 😛

In the sense of 'original name' - I think there wasn't any before the variations of 'Sauron'. Tolkien wrote somewhere that most of the Maiar and other spirits of course didn't have names... of what use would they be if they don't even talk to each other in any real language?
Maybe he got one while working for Aule though 😕 I couldnt find Eol's "Erekan" anywhere though

Originally posted by Exabyte
I think he didnt have a name in the very beginning... Ainur dont need names.

Originally posted by Exabyte
I think in the beginning, Saurons name wasnt Sauron, perhaps he didnt even have a name. Afterwards he appears with many names, like Thauron, Gorthaur, Annatar, Artano, Aulendil, Dark Lord (haha intelligent name), The Black Hand, The Shadow, The Nameless (yeeees), The Lidless Eye, The Nameless Eyes, The Lord of the Ring(s) and so on and so on.

Is it just me getting déjà-vus 🤨
Originally posted by Darth Sauron
well no exa

Thats what I just wanted to say laughing
it wasnt sauron in the beginning, as sauron means lord of abomintaion and at first he was not evil, he was turned that way by morgoth. so his original name is a mystery as i know he was also called Gorthaur meaning 'terrible dread' so i doubt he was originally called that, for a brief time he was known as annatar A name meaning 'Lord of Gifts, which he didnt adopt until the second age for when he tried to seduce the elves

Good point Ô_o

Tulkas, Aule, and Ulmo are my fav, Tulkas could whoop Melkors ass in the blink of an eye! 😄

Originally posted by Darth Sauron
His real name wasnt melkor if you think about it.
Thats just what the valar decided to call him, and you cant trust them.

After all, history is written by the winning side, you dont really think sam hurt, or even met, shelob do you?

And that massive orc army....yeah, it was like three of them ✅

lmao your probably right

Nonetheless, Melkor, Morgoth, even if he didn't start being evil, like darth sauron says, he served Illuvatar Eru's purpose. Eru is supposed to be the ultimate who knows everything. Therefore, he knew Melkor would do what he did. We can then say that he put evil on Middle-earth on purpose. Doesn't that make him a little bit evil? I know you can say that the Christian God did the same thing with Satan and that he meant to put balance into the world, but think harder... He is supposed to be the good almighty. When I read it, it didn't occur to me that way.

God didnt do that with satan....
Lucifer was god favourite angel, until he rebelled and was cast out of heaven and into a much warmer redder place down south 🙂

Well Melkor was Illuvatar's favorite Valar, and he came down from where Eru lived to go to Middle-Earth, and made Arda a demonic place. Can we call it hell? Nonetheles, the Valar went away. When the Valar came to take Melkor captive, it was the liberation of Middle-earth. Looks pretty alike, both of them, except that God didn't take Lucifer captive, yet...

Originally posted by Mandos
Nonetheless, Melkor, Morgoth, even if he didn't start being evil, like darth sauron says, he served Illuvatar Eru's purpose. Eru is supposed to be the ultimate who knows everything. Therefore, he knew Melkor would do what he did. We can then say that he put evil on Middle-earth on purpose. Doesn't that make him a little bit evil? I know you can say that the Christian God did the same thing with Satan and that he meant to put balance into the world, but think harder... He is supposed to be the good almighty. When I read it, it didn't occur to me that way.

You might wanna read this thread: 🙂

Forces of Evil

Especially the part where Smodden and I were talking about Melkor. 😊

Originally posted by Mandos
Well Melkor was Illuvatar's favorite Valar, and he came down from where Eru lived to go to Middle-Earth, and made Arda a demonic place. Can we call it hell? Nonetheles, the Valar went away. When the Valar came to take Melkor captive, it was the liberation of Middle-earth. Looks pretty alike, both of them, except that God didn't take Lucifer captive, yet...

No he wasnt no2
He was the most powerful, and brother of Manwe in the mind of iluvatar

And we all know manwe is the favourite child, Melkor was the rebellious child- go read the beiginning again, he goes out into the void looking for the flame, and he doesnt get back till after curfew, drunk and smelling of smoke and cheap perfume

Well if Morgoth didn't rebel, it was he who should have been the rular over all other Valars.