Does Frodo'spassage to Aman can symbolize his death? I explain inside.

Frodo is going to a paradise island to stay there until judgement day. He will become a "prisonner" of the island. The same thing for the elves. Can we say that Valinor is the place where elves "die" when they are tired of living on Middle-Earth? When Aman distached itself from the world, it went to another dimension, unknowned by men. That mean they will all be stuck there forever. It's pretty depressive if we think about it. Valinor has to be pretty darn beautiful!! 😕

Originally posted by Mandos
Frodo is going to a paradise island to stay there until judgement day. He will become a "prisonner" of the island.

To me it rather seems like before, Frodo was a prisoner of life, and now he's free - to die in peace

Can we say that Valinor is the place where elves "die" when they are tired of living on Middle-Earth?
That mean they will all be stuck there forever. It's pretty depressive if we think about it.
Valinor has to be pretty darn beautiful!

... not forever, if they wanted to, at least the elves among them could leave again ('freely you came and freely you shall depart'😉, most just don't want to... and sooner or later they will *have* to leave, at the latest when the Dagor Dagrath starts 😛

Are you serious when you say that Frodo will die there? I thought those who put a foot on the immortal lands were automatically immortal. For example, Earendil. Also, throughout the Silmarillon, some mortals also set sail to the immortal Lands (but we don't know what happened to them after). In the king's annals at the end of RotK, it say that Sam leaves Middle-Earth shores to find Frodo at the immortal lands, Frodo is much older than Sam. What about Gimli when he left with Legolas? If there was no immortal consequences, why was it wrong for humans to walk on Aman?
But then again, maybe you're right.

Originally posted by Mandos
Are you serious when you say that Frodo will die there? I thought those who put a foot on the immortal lands were automatically immortal.

For example, Earendil.

Also, throughout the Silmarillon, some mortals also set sail to the immortal Lands (but we don't know what happened to them after).

What about Gimli when he left with Legolas?

If there was no immortal consequences, why was it wrong for humans to walk on Aman?

Well I'll be damned. That's very logical. Allright Exabyte, I believe you.
You put some time in answering. I appreciate. You made the last thing that darkned my eyes about the Undying lands dissapear Thank you!!

Originally posted by Exabyte
Yea, Im serious 😉
This idea - that it is the land that would make them immortal - was also the Númenoreans' main and fatal mistake, and Tolkien clearly stated that they were wrong - the Valar can't change Mortals' gift from Ilúvatar and the land is called 'immortal' because of its inhabitants, not because of the region itself.

Earendil was probably 'a little immortal' a) because of the Silmaril and b) because of his mother, the princess of Gondolin, an elf. In one of his letters, Tolkien suggested that maybe like Lúthien became mortal for Beren (and yet their son Dior was immortal), Tuor got some kind of immortality or something close to it, 'one from each side' changing their fate; Earendil as the descendant of this union would also be a halfelf, maybe able to choose his fate, like his two sons, descendants to both those unions between elves and mortals, were 🙂
... yet it is said of Earendil that his spirit was rather that of men than of elves and that he would have chosen a mortal life; he also saw himself as a mortal when he spoke to the Valar of his wish to save both kindreds; he only was allowed to enter the Undying Lands after having sworn never to return to Middle-earth again

Tuor tries to, he fails; Earendil and his three companions do, the companions are not allowed to enter; in the earlier versions Túrin and Nienor do, becoming freed of their mortal bodies through the Baths of Fire; Beren comes there simply because he refuses to leave the world without Lúthien, but they both become mortal.
And, of course, Pharazôn's men came there... they were all killed 🙂

... he must have died after some more decades 😬

Because then the attention-catcher-elfies would have been jealous 😛

Clearly stated, no more questions, closing -- closed 😂

Ah yah 🙄

🙂

Originally posted by eezy45
Clearly stated, no more questions, closing -- closed 😂

laughing

Well, the original question wasn't really answered yet...
and at least for those few mortals that got there, it *was* a prison and they were never again allowed to leave - like Earendil, well he could at least surf around on the sky a little, but he wasn't allowed to return to his relatives or live a peaceful lovely life with his wife... he had sacrificed his personal freedom to the Two Kindreds.
I think the idea of a prison is an interesting point of view, usually people just talk about all the positive points of Aman and everybody seems to want to go there... but Mandos is right, it's kind of the end of freedom, the only freedom left to Mortals living there is that of death
So is the question about how much life there for the elves actually *was* like a life?