Then that makes your estimate not worth much, I guess, seeing as your entire spiel has been that Obi-Wan contradicts himself. He does not- he said two things in that respect:
a. Anakin was a great pilot when he met him. This is true; it refers to his pod racing skills.
b. Anakin was the finest star pilot in the Galaxy. This is also true; we just haven't seen it yet.
Changing Darth into a title is hardly a heinous crime; in fact, I have no objection to little touches like that. And so Obi-Wan's line now equates to "You cannot win, Captain," which is absolutely fine. Using a rank like that as a title of address is of no issue.
This purported mistakes you see are not so at all- only focussed nitpickers make any capital out of them at all. Fact is, he adapted a new story to meet the originals as much as possible, but the IMPORTANT thing is that the Prequels stood fine, and literal enslavement to what was in the OT, if this would reduce what he wanted from the PT, would have been a large negative factor. Every point you make can be easily answered by pieces from the PT. You just don't want it to work- well tough, it does, just not the way we originally saw it. George Lucas deliberately inserted the entire pod racing plot to give Anakin his pilot's credentials. He forcibly inserted a line about Obi-Wan talking of Yoda's teachings to let us know that Yoda taught him first. He even put in Obi-Wan's surprise at Anakin's enormous force potential to keep continuity there. It is all there, and you can not like it, but trying to make out it is NOT there is simply transferred hostility from your dislike of the PT style.
And Prozak, anyone who thinks they are anyone other than GL's films is big-headed. They are his and his alone- you can like them or not like them, but that is ALL you get to do. Being a fan does NOT give you a stake in them, and thinking it does is one of the greatest delusions of many a person today.
Ah, Ushgarak, you're going to take advantage of my new outlook on posting?
Then that makes your estimate not worth much, I guess, seeing as your entire spiel has been that Obi-Wan contradicts himself. He does not- he said two things in that respect:
a. Anakin was a great pilot when he met him. This is true; it refers to his pod racing skills.
No, read the scripts, watch the film. In ANH, he says, "star pilot" not just "pilot." And, no, that's NOT referring to the pod-racing. If I remembering correctly, the pod didn't get anywheres near space.
b. Anakin was the finest star pilot in the Galaxy. This is also true; we just haven't seen it yet.
Yes, now Lucas attempts to "fix" in the third film when it should've been dealt with in the FIRST film.
Changing Darth into a title is hardly a heinous crime; in fact, I have no objection to little touches like that. And so Obi-Wan's line now equates to "You cannot win, Captain," which is absolutely fine. Using a rank like that as a title of address is of no issue.
Did I say it was a 'heinous crime'? I simply pointed out that when Obi-Wan says, "Darth" it sounds like a first name, and then I said that it was the EU which established Darth as a title, slapping it on every Sith Warrior that came out of the woodworks. And, I added to that that in the original scripts, Darth WAS a name. I'm just saying Lucas should've stuck with the original idea. I can live with Darth being a title, though, if that makes you happy.
This purported mistakes you see are not so at all- only focussed nitpickers make any capital out of them at all.
No, it's not nitpicking when something is established in an original film, and then contradicted in the following films, that's called "continuity."
Fact is, he adapted a new story to meet the originals as much as possible, but the IMPORTANT thing is that the Prequels stood fine
No, even between the prequel films, there is discontinuity in characterization.
and literal enslavement to what was in the OT, if this would reduce what he wanted from the PT, would have been a large negative factor.
I guess it boils down to a matter of opinion there. I think 'enslavement' would've done the PT's a world of good.
Every point you make can be easily answered by pieces from the PT. You just don't want it to work-
Then you just WANT it to work.
well tough, it does, just not the way we originally saw it. George Lucas deliberately inserted the entire pod racing plot to give Anakin his pilot's credentials.
Okay, next time I'll tell a go-cart driver he can fly me to Japan.
He forcibly inserted a line about Obi-Wan talking of Yoda's teachings to let us know that Yoda taught him first.
Yes, 'forcibly'...shoe-horned... Lucas just didn't know how to write Obi-Wan as the central figure in the first film. Strange, since he mentioned in an interview that Obi-Wan would be so.
He even put in Obi-Wan's surprise at Anakin's enormous force potential to keep continuity there. It is all there, and you can not like it, but trying to make out it is NOT there is simply transferred hostility from your dislike of the PT style.
No, he showed Obi-Wan's surprise at a large midiclorian count.
And Prozak, anyone who thinks they are anyone other than GL's films is big-headed. They are his and his alone- you can like them or not like them, but that is ALL you get to do. Being a fan does NOT give you a stake in them, and thinking it does is one of the greatest delusions of many a person today.
I think it does give us the right to voice our displeasure. We put the money into the original Star Wars, we bought the merchandise, we are the ones responsible for Lucas to be able to continue to make the next film, to make Skywalker Ranch, advance ILM... Other directors and writers are appreciative of their fans. Peter Jackson is big example of this.
And, again, just because they are his movies doesn't mean they are GOOD...
People need to not take it so literally and enjoy the movies!
No, read the scripts, watch the film. In ANH, he says, "star pilot" not just "pilot." And, no, that's NOT referring to the pod-racing. If I remembering correctly, the pod didn't get anywheres near space
You're right, Anakin did not go into space in the Pod. But at 9 years old, he was pod-racing, something no other human could do! Tell me he isn't a great pilot. And later in the film he flies into space and kicks some ass. You may say it was luck, but Obi-Wan in the OT said "There is no such thing as luck"
No, even between the prequel films, there is discontinuity in characterization.
Are they your characters? Did you create them? Then shut up about how the creator of Star Wars portrays them.
No, he showed Obi-Wan's surprise at a large midiclorian count.
Midiclorian counts tell the Jedi how much potential a being has with the force. It's a measurement of how connected he is to life in the galaxy, I don't see what your problem is here.
And, again, just because they are his movies doesn't mean they are GOOD...
I agree, but once Episode 3 is out, I doubt you'll be complaining about the PT. With all of the lightsaber duels and action that's going on, I can't help but think this could be the best of them all.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Ya kow what? We dont have to agree on this or anything else really. But....as i do, youalso are very much entitled to your opinions and thoughts, and i shouldnt be the one to tell you what you THINK is wrong. I agree and have said from the day i saw TPM, that it wasnt the same "type" of movies as the OT. Theres a lot of things in the movies that do in fact contradict themselves, but the way i look at it is, ya know, its his dream, his vision...ill accept what he puts in front of me.To me its like going up to Beethoven and telling him he wrote the %th incorrectly, or to change a note here or a note there....although i would prefer different things to happen in SW, it just wouldnt be "star wars" if it were any different. Do you see where Im coming from? And youre right about the "darth" thing...it was once going to be a name, not a title, but now it is a title, as we've seen other people with Darth in their name. SO, with all that said, and as much as i do like to argue, lets just stop and go on from here...both of us.......ok? I dont like, not liking someone. Fair enough?
You're 100% correct man. 😉
People need to not take it so literally and enjoy the movies!
How can one "enjoy" them when there is mischaracterization, discontinuity and general disregard for the original films? The original films made me 'enjoy' them, I was expecting this same quality, but it did not happen.
You're right, Anakin did not go into space in the Pod. But at 9 years old, he was pod-racing, something no other human could do! Tell me he isn't a great pilot. And later in the film he flies into space and kicks some ass. You may say it was luck, but Obi-Wan in the OT said "There is no such thing as luck"
No, everything was an accident. First, he accidently launches the ship ("oops"😉, then he does a dumb spin move to evade enemly fire and is so lucky and they miss him ("oops"😉 and then he accidently blows up the federations ship ("oops"😉. Sorry, too many oops (coinicidences) to suspend the disbelief. At least Luke in the ANH had more skill as a pilot, was somewhat trained by Obi-Wan in the ways of the Force, I could believe that he could've done what he did. You say, "there is no such thing is luck," implying that the Force "helped" Anakin along, makes me wonder if Anakin had closed his eyes and put his hands behind his back if the Force would've done it all for him. There has to be a little "human" element.
Are they your characters? Did you create them? Then shut up about how the creator of Star Wars portrays them.
What does that matter?! If Spock from Star Trek were suddenly to start giggling and pointing at people, pulling practical jokes on them you'd immediately know that this wasn't his character at all. If I read novels, a series of novels with the same characters in them, I expect them to have the same personalities, the same drives, the same motivations. They are generally the same person. The same is with TPM Anakin vs. AOTC Anakin. They are like night and day!
Midiclorian counts tell the Jedi how much potential a being has with the force. It's a measurement of how connected he is to life in the galaxy, I don't see what your problem is here.
Midiclorian = suckage. Midichlorians DEvalue the Force. It was established well in the original series. It didn't need to be added. You know, people could tell in the original movie if Force-users were around... "I sense a presence..." They didn't have midi-chlorian detectors... It also puts Motti's statement of the "ancient religion" to stupid proportions. How can it be a "religion" when it can quantitified, categorized, and appears in a petri dish?
I agree, but once Episode 3 is out, I doubt you'll be complaining about the PT. With all of the lightsaber duels and action that's going on, I can't help but think this could be the best of them all.
Obviously you hold flash-bang-gee-whiz-bang special effects and pointless action above plot & characters. We'll see about Episode III, but what I've heard from rumors---I'm not too hopeful. If I'm surprised and happy with it... you'll be the first to know.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you really that sure that Anakin doesn't fly a starfighter in Episode III? Because, by all accounts that I've heard so far, he does. In the Clone Wars shorts, if you choose to regard them despite being EU, he leads a squadron, and pretty much makes everyone else there look like chumps. And, in Episode IV, he pretty well goes to town in his starfighter. How much more evidence do you need?
this really went offtopic here. DARTH VADER
2 ways to look at what it means: 1. what is its defintion in the sw universe? 2. how did gl come up with the name in rl?
no. 2 can be answered by a book on the bio of ralph mcquarrie the original concept artist for sw 4-6. as he was doing concept drawings for the character gl came up with the name darth vader, gl mentioned in the book that darth is a play on the word dark, and that he took vader simply from the german word vater which means father. i.e dark father.
1. obviously this doesn't translate very well into sw universe. so he gave it a sw galaxy definition for a dark lord. stature is what he is implying with the word. someone so dark they have actually been crowned or knighted for the amount of dark deeds committed.
something else to go along with what i had stated above. GL seems to have used a play on words with each of his sith lords in his movies. infact the origin meaning seems to point simply to what part in the plot of the movies they play. for instance.....
darth sidious; play on insidious; Definition: working or spreading in a hidden and usually injurious way.
his goal in the movies seems to be to take over by slighly without anyone ever knowing until it is too late.
darth maul; play on the verb mauled; definition: to beat, bruise.
he never really was a big part in the orchestration of the plans in the movie. his sole purpose seemed to be to destroy or eliminate for his master. he served his purpose and sidious moved on.
darth tyrannous; play on tyranny; definition: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force.
had his own agenda and plan. definitely was under the thought that he had to secede by force.
so all 4 names are basically in my opinion a definition of what they are and their roles.
Originally posted by mtryder
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you really that sure that Anakin doesn't fly a starfighter in Episode III? Because, by all accounts that I've heard so far, he does. In the Clone Wars shorts, if you choose to regard them despite being EU, he leads a squadron, and pretty much makes everyone else there look like chumps. And, in Episode IV, he pretty well goes to town in his starfighter. How much more evidence do you need?
...the clone wars cartoons are EU. They don't apply, regardless of how well (or as some people say, how badly) done it is.
I agree to what alot of Ferret says-but, it IS GL's movie series, and we have to live with that. 😄
Oh, and people saying Darth Vader = Dark Father doesn't even make a DAMNED BIT OF SENSE. How could McQuarrie or Lucas have derived this name with these etymologies, when it is FACT that the whole idea for "Darth Vader = Anakin Skywalker = Luke's dad" came about when revising the final-draft of the ESB script?
Lucas may have based the name ANNIKAN/ANAKIN off of the name of a Biblical people: Anakhim/Anakim.
Also, the original name for Coruscant/Imperial Center, (as appeared in early scripts for RotJ) can be described: Had Abbadon = Had, possibly derived from the Arabic name Hadi "Religious Guide", (in the Imperial sense, the "guide" of Imperial living-or, it could be from a Hebrew word I don't know of 😛); Abbadon = etymologically related to the Hebrew name/word Abaddon "Ruin, Destruction". 😉
Excellent, Arc!
Oh Mighty Ursh---Yes, they are Lucas' movies. Let's take a look. If you take the time to read the opening crawl for ESB... in the original copy---which has been around for twenty-frickin' years---it's says, "LORD DARTH VADER" and if you go to the credits at the end of ANH it says, "LORD DARTH VADER."
"It's his movie." He originally made Darth Vader a name. It's been that way a long time. His revisionism doesn't make it good. Doesn't make it right.