The Official ROTK:EE Talk

Started by Lord_Andres5 pages

Any of you think that the gandalf vs witchking was rather lame? i mean, he whooped a balrog's ass, used lighing sword and manashield, and what else, and he did that when he was gandalf the grey, I find it rather dull to see him act like a whimp when he confornted the witchking when he was gandalf the white, I mean, if you liten closly you can hear fear in his words, Aragorn kick ALL the nazgúls on weathertop, y should gandalf not be able to take care of 1 all by him self? i think that scebe was a bit rushed, first have him break gandi staff, and then hen was just about 3feet away from the fellbeast mouth, wiki decides he must go for a picknic, thats stupit, I would have liked it alot better if they would just dismount and go at each other like two great captains would have done, wiki with hius flaming sword, and gandalf summoning the lighing sword, that would have been awsome, have a long good fight between them, that would have been better then Gandalf confronting wiki at the gate!

i never noticed gandalf lost his staff in the original movie, lol, so that's how...

Same here! When I saw that I had to think if we ever saw gandalf with his staff after that point

Yeah omg me too! I was like omg did he really not have it after that *thinks* and then I watched the end bit and I was like oh yeah and he didn't! 'Cause when he tried saving Faramir and he takes that spear thing or whatever it was you would have thought he'd use his staff but obviously he doesn't!

Well at weathertop Aragorn had a torch and I think the nazzies are afraid of fire and its burns them or somthin but did gandalf think to bring a torch in the day time NO!

Hahaha yeah; that's their weakness.

Gandalf vs. The Witch King

While I find this scene rather spectacular as a set piece, I do share some of the reservations expressed.

First the positives. Given the timing of Grond's appearance and the breaking of the gates of Minas Tirith in the film, it would not have made sense to set this scene at the gates. The Trolls and Orcs had already broken through and Gandalf had ordered a retreat to the second level before his encounter with the Witch King takes place. (As an aside, I do wonder why the women and children had not been evacuated to a higher level earlier 🙄.) In terms of the chronology used in the film, therefore, it makes sense for the encounter to take place while Gandalf and Pippin are en route to prevent Denethor's little family bonfire.

It also makes more sense than the book in one respect. It always struck me as rather strange that the Witch King would lead his army into battle on horseback when he had a Fell Beast at his disposal. It seems even more strange that, having confronted Gandalf on horseback, he would then exchange his horse for a Fell Beast halfway through the battle. In this regard, it makes more sense that the Witch King confronts Gandalf while mounted on his Fell Beast and then flies off to encounter Theoden, Eowyn et al on the same steed.

I do also think that, in film terms, it is more spectacular to have the Witch King slowly rise above the battlements for the encounter. The sight of him towering over Gandalf and Pippin on his Fell Beast looks good visually. I also love the shot in which his sword bursts into flames (mirroring, filmically, the text of the book, "And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade."--The Siege of Gondor). Although, I suppose this raises the question of why he swapped it for a huge mace/flail thingy in his encounter with Eowyn.

But now for the negatives. As others have said, it rather goes against the spirit of the books that the Witch King is able to get the better of Gandalf. But more problematic, for me, is the fact that it is inconsistent with Gandalf's portrayal elsewhere in the film. It has been pointed out that as Gandalf the Grey, he was able to defeat a Balrog, and that (as Gandalf the White) he had the better of Saruman. These are the two central villains of the first and second films, and two of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth. Why should the Witch King (who was driven off by Aragorn in the Weathertop and by Glorfindel/Arwen at the Ford) be able to get the better of him?

I appreciate that the Witch King was set up as the main "baddie" of the final film, and there is a suggestion that his power was enhanced when he assumed leadership of Sauron's Mordor armies (in the scene where he first appears, donning his armour, in Minas Morgul, accompanied by Gandalf's line to Pippin that Sauron had yet to reveal his deadliest servant). In film terms, Gandalf's bettering by the Witch King increases the desperation of the battle (if even Gandalf cannot save them), and enhances the accomplishment of Eowyn and Merry. But, to my mind, this doesn't get over the internal inconsistency in "power levels". Jackson could still have had the Witch King breaking Gandalf's staff (which is pretty spectacular, introduces a moment of tension and ties in with his line to Gothmog that he will "break" the wizard), but Gandalf should then have fought back. I would have preferred a "stand off" between them here, as in the book.

And this would also have made more sense of the Witch King's sudden departure with the arrival of the Rohirrim, since I agree that it seems tactically inept for him to forego finishing off his greatest foe if he has him at his mercy.

Well at weathertop Aragorn had a torch and I think the nazzies are afraid of fire and its burns them or somthin but did gandalf think to bring a torch in the day time NO!

Ya but he turned he sword into flaming sword 😛 y wasint he afraid then????

anyway the scene was clearly rushed I mean how long was it, 40secs? something like that, it should have been a fight and a whoopin, but a good ol captain vs captain fight, not some halfassed demigod vs junky, wich it was!

The problem is the movie didn't really take the time to emphasize/mention the fact that the Nazgul are afraid of fire and water, making them seem weak in the first film when Aragorn and Arwen drove them off, and thus making the scene where the Witch King was owning Gandalf a little inconsistent from what the movie has established power-wise.

As for the Witch King's blade flaming up, it came directly from the book, so I guess we should ask the good 'ole Professor why Wiki wasn't afraid, but alas, we can't do that now. As for me, I'm guessing that the flaming up could either be interpreted literally or metaphorically. The movie just made a visual interpretation of it.

aye good point shadowy, as usual.

perhaps it was a flame of the underworld, in which the witchking was accustomed too?

as for me, I am watching the EE tomorrow for a record 5th time, how cool am I?

I found the Mouth scene substandard. And the Saruman scene. Damn.

yeah I somewhat agree with you duder, the mouth of sauron scene did not satisfy me at all ❌

Aragorn just didnt seem himself and when he killed the dude he took a mental ass rape on the others "I dont believe it"....ok we got that haha.

😛

^^ I'm beginning to see a pattern

😕
Me eat now?

yeees, I will go get you some nice crayons.

I was due to watch ROTK:EE on friday but didnt - how crazy a story is that.

I am working too much nowadays and too much homework comes in, I only have time for such a movie during holidays or a sunday where I am not hungover (which wont be so remote now since I started my 2005 campaign to quite the booze)

I watched it earlier.

^^ a whole day i am gone and all i come back to is this one wee post....no no no my friends, This is the bloody EE. I demand we discuss more!