the only reason why you might have better arguments is because i dont know that much about wildstorm. i dont read wildstorm comics. and i think people are voting for me because they know my team better. they know my heros' track record. they've read the stories where superman and spider-man and batman and wolverine win against impossible odds and "people they can't touch." why shouldnt they vote for my team? your team is a bunch of heros with powers any schmo could have come up with that might as well be my heros' common villans. people here know that batman single handedly took out the entire jla, so combined with all of wolverine's powers, why cant he take out anyone else? did hawksmore ever do something like that? if he did, give an example. no one will know what you are talking about. i can give so many instances where my heros should have died but still came out victorious. why not this time? why not against this group that includes "3 heros i cant touch"?
i mean i could still keep pulling scenerios out of my ass like spidey's webbing is lightening proof (which is true, he made gloves out of his webbing to hit electro) so he could make a websuit for hellboy with his advanced webbing skills, but i think that no matter whats stats are thrown around in this tournament, my team can win.
. . . unless i'm fighting a hardcore telepath. . . then i might have a problem. . . .
Originally posted by Quick Freeze
your team is a bunch of heros with powers any schmo could have come up with that might as well be my heros' common villans. people here know that batman single handedly took out the entire jla, so combined with all of wolverine's powers, why cant he take out anyone else?
Oh please, Batman took out the entire JLA because he had ungodly amounts of prep time spent earning their trust. We're talking about three hours of prep time here against enemies he knows next to nothing about.
Originally posted by Quick Freeze
did hawksmore ever do something like that? if he did, give an example.
The Authority #16. Every major city in the world is under attack, so each member of the team has to split up and defend whole cities by themselves. Hawsmoor goes to France and takes out an entire fighting force by himself. Midnighter does the same thing, taking on a group of characters that are basically Wildstorms versions of the x-men and x-factor.
Originally posted by Quick Freeze
i can give so many instances where my heros should have died but still came out victorious. why not this time? why not against this group that includes "3 heros i cant touch"?
i mean i could still keep pulling scenerios out of my ass like spidey's webbing is lightening proof (which is true, he made gloves out of his webbing to hit electro) so he could make a websuit for hellboy with his advanced webbing skills, but i think that no matter whats stats are thrown around in this tournament, my team can win.
Spidey could make a suit of webbing for Hellboy? Jenny could jump inside his mouth, since he still needs to breathe. I don't care how smart or resourceful he is, Dark Claw can't do anything when he's sunk up to his shoulders in concrete. Spawn, as powerful as he is, will die if he uses too much power.
You have yet to name a scenario in which your team can beat mine. I layed out an entire strategy, exploited weaknesses, allowed for wins on your side, and still came out on top. You have yet to do the same.
Well, if Majestic is as ruthless and has millenia of experience under his belt, and has all the powers of Superman, I can see him taking out Spawn easy. Sure they have trouble taking out Spawn for a while, but then Majestic with thousands of years of experience, and the knowledge that if you can't kill something, but haven't decapitated it yet, try it. Would take off Spawns head with heat vision in a matter of seconds, or just rip it off with his bare hands. Bye bye Spawn as decapitation truly kills him.
Dare Devil takes out Nightwing. I don't care how good Dick Grayson is, Dare Devil has skills that are just as good, plus enhanced senses and that nifty radar sense, he can preform acrobatics Nightwing can only drool over. Dare Devil takes that fight.
And if you're referring to Tower of Babble story line as your reference of Batman beating the whole JLA, Batman didn't do any of that. Yeah, he came up with the means, but Ra's al Ghul enacted those plans, with teams and teams of assassins. Batman didn't enact such plans, created them, yes. But did not implement them.
As for Dark Claw, I refuse to acknowledge him as he's from Amaglam. So he goes down. And even with all those powers and gagdets, Black Bolts voice would still take him out as ear plugs really wouldn't doo much to protect one against soud of that level. 'Nuff said.
I'm fairly certain Spidey's webbing is only insulated when he uses specially prepared web cartridges, ie he knows he's going to be fighting Electro or some other electric based villian. And he doesn't carry a supply of his special senario webbing with him everywhere he goes, he only mixes that up when he needs it, otehr wise, he's got standard webbing. But if this assumption of mine is incorrect, someone is more than welcome to correct my mistaken belief.
Blackbolt just speaking in short bursts at a normal speaking level would take out anything below a Superman level, hence why he just doesn't speak at all in the comics, ever, unless the very survival of all the Inhumans depends on him using his voice power to save them.
Hellboy I honestly don't know much about. But if it's a proven fact that he's vulnerable to electricity seems he's going down, to me.
Majestic vs. Supes, don't know how to call it. But Supes alone versus the entirity of Khell's team, or it's three really powerful members? I call in favor of Khell's team.
Picking the more popular, well-known heroes does not automatically make it the better team. What makes it the better team is putting forth well reasoned and thought out explanations of why they would win, instead of just relying on the popularity of the characters on the team to win the battle for you. It's all about quality, both of the team and the poster's explanations. And the popularity of the characters does not equate to either type of quality.
yeah heat vision will do a lot to spawn. and if you read the posts, then you'll see blackbolt is not allowed to speak over a whisper or hiccup so that rules out that theory. and you're right, popularity doesnt make it a better team, it makes it a more popular team. everybody knows what almost all of my team members accomplished which gives them an edge in the votes. and how can you tell me that the better team is the team with the better quality and poster's explainations when you completely dismiss a character just because you dont like amalgam? and if jenny sparks can really just fly into someones mouth in some kind of energy form and kill them then she does not belong at spider-man's level.
you wanna hear a scenerio?
superman attacks sparks and super speed and super strength and pummels her into a pulp before anybody knows what happened because during the prep time dark claw told him that she committed some intergalactic crime. spidey webs up midnighter and hawksmore for spidey and darky to finish off while nightwing and grifter double team dd. now it's my whole team vs majestic, black bolt and dragonman. both batman and spider-man are more than capable of defeating people more powerful than them as long as they are stupider, with the help of spawn, spidey and darky take out dragon man while supes keeps majestc busy and blackbolt is dealing with grifter, nightwing, and hellboy. now its my whole team vs majestic and black bolt. dark claw throws some kind of gas and since bb has terrible immunity he reacts to it very poorly which leaves dark claw, spider-man, spawn and hellboy to overpower him, again while supes and majestic are duking it out. so my whole team vs majestic, you decide.
Originally posted by Quick Freeze
spidey webs up midnighter and hawksmore for spidey and darky to finish off
Oh, yeah the yare just probably going to stand there when he webs them up. right.
blackbolt is dealing with grifter, nightwing, and hellboy
I think he could kill them all with one whisper. No one of them can take an Class 80 force and survive.
spidey and darky take out dragon man
How they take out an Class 100 character? Explain me.
supes keeps majestc busy
Majestic, with same powers and more experience, plus him being more ruthless, is better then Superman.
dark claw, spider-man, spawn and hellboy to overpower him, again while supes and majestic are duking it out. so my whole team vs majestic, you decide.
He could take out Dark Claw, Spider-Man, and Hellboy in matter of seconds unless the wouldn't have been killed by Black Bolt earlier.
the problem i keep seeing with black bolt is that as soon as he uses a class 80 whisper it takes out most people on both teams - Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Sparks, Midnighter, Daredevil, Spawn, Hellboy, Dark Claw, Spider-Man, Nightwing and Voodoo ok i'm not sure about spawn and jenny sparks as i'm not that familiar with them but i assume as black bolts scream is energy it will affect an electrical opponent and i read the batman spawn crossover where batman wears some time of metal energy gloves and beats the crap out of spawn so it doesn't look like he can take an 80 level, dragon man superman and majestic can all take it and BB doesn't hurt himself with it (i assume) but i have trouble believing he would use something that'll take out his own team unless it get's to the point where they are down already
if he uses it it looks like a superman V's majestic dragonman and black bolt (actualy dark claw could take it as wolverine has proven on many occasions he can go toe to toe with the hulk)
does using the scream...... or whisper or whatever we're calling it drain BB?
and darkcrawler asked how spidey and dark claw could take out dragonman, spidey has fought him before and knows he's pretty simple minded and easy to distract and could easily set him up for dark claw to slice him open
unless i'm wrong about spawn's resiliance this could come down to supes and dark claw against majestic and black bolt (after dragon man is sliced) and we all know wolverine can take a hell of a lot of punishment and could possably take out BB, i think it's agreed that in one on one majestic would eventualy beat superman but may end up exhausted doing it so (in this scenario) it would be dark claw v's tired majestic and in that case, with these who are 2 of the most ruthless in this line up i may have to go with the claw if he has all batmans gadgets and all wolverines abilities which would let him take a direct hit from this guy and by the sound of him majestic would overestimate his invulnerability to adamantium claws and come in to close
sorry khell - it's 6 each and i'm going to use my vote for freeze
Originally posted by Scoobless
the problem i keep seeing with black bolt is that as soon as he uses a class 80 whisper it takes out most people on both teams - Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Sparks, Midnighter, Daredevil, Spawn, Hellboy, Dark Claw, Spider-Man, Nightwing and Voodoo ok i'm not sure about spawn and jenny sparks as i'm not that familiar with them but i assume as black bolts scream is energy it will affect an electrical opponent and i read the batman spawn crossover where batman wears some time of metal energy gloves and beats the crap out of spawn so it doesn't look like he can take an 80 level, dragon man superman and majestic can all take it and BB doesn't hurt himself with it (i assume) but i have trouble believing he would use something that'll take out his own team unless it get's to the point where they are down already
You're right, he wouldn't use it until most of the battlefield was cleared. That's why, in the strategy I had up, he used only a whisper, directed downwards, so that his two opponents and the street would have absorbed the impact. The thing is, Majestic is an excellent leader and strategist. He could easily come up with a plan that put his Black Bolt's voice to use without hurting his team. If anything, BB could act as a rallying point. If things start going badly, the team could fall back behind him, and let him clear the field with an extended whisper and protect them with a force field.
I know Wolverine can take hits from Hulk, but those are physical blows. This is destructive energy, it doesnt transfer kinetic energy it just destroys matter.
Originally posted by Scoobless
if he uses it it looks like a superman V's majestic dragonman and black bolt (actualy dark claw could take it as wolverine has proven on many occasions he can go toe to toe with the hulk)
does using the scream...... or whisper or whatever we're calling it drain BB?
Not noticeably. One assumes after a solid hour he would get tired, but just a few minutes of whipsering shouldn't drain him very much.
Originally posted by Scoobless
unless i'm wrong about spawn's resiliance this could come down to supes and dark claw against majestic and black bolt (after dragon man is sliced) and we all know wolverine can take a hell of a lot of punishment and could possably take out BB, i think it's agreed that in one on one majestic would eventualy beat superman but may end up exhausted doing it so (in this scenario) it would be dark claw v's tired majestic and in that case, with these who are 2 of the most ruthless in this line up i may have to go with the claw if he has all batmans gadgets and all wolverines abilities which would let him take a direct hit from this guy and by the sound of him majestic would overestimate his invulnerability to adamantium claws and come in to close
The thing abut Majestic, is that most of his battles have been against Daemonites. These are aliens who can possess people, so that even some unassuming shmuck could be a deadly enemy. Majestic is not in the habit of underestimating people. Even if he was tired out, he could still hit DC ten times at superpseed before he even knew what hit him. And, when hitting him didn't work, he could use Black Bolt to strip the flesh off his bones. Even if he heals back, I think that still counts as incapacitation. See, Black Bolt still has his forcefields. No way is he letting anything that looks like Wolverine get close to him with those claws.
Originally posted by Scoobless
sorry khell - it's 6 each and i'm going to use my vote for freeze
Oh well, thanks for at least telling me why you voted. I appreciate that. And hey, it's tied up again so maybe I still have a chance?
Yep, Khell. I say it goes either way. Like Quickfreeze said, I know nothing about your team, so I trust his more. From what I've read, it's pretty damn close. Two great stategens, two Supermen... But I think that Quick's team is probably just plain better. Supes can take advantage of your screaming guy (sorry, I forget his name... 🙁) Anyway, I actually prefer your strategy, but...
i just want to say that however it turns out, this round is going to be twice as long as the scoob/crazy round, with 14 votes ours is tied 7-7 while at 14 votes theirs was 9-5, and that i am fine with however it turns out, no hard feelings either way ok khell?
now back to the show:
darkcrawler: midnighter and hawksmoor have no way of knowing what webbing is, i'm not saying they'll let spidey web them up im just saying they wont expect it, which puts them at a disadvantage. hellboy is more than capable of taking a class 80 force, even so, i dont think bb has the accuracy to to take all three of them out with a whisper with out getting everybody else on his team who cant take it either. you took the spidey and darky taking out dragon man out of context, i said they could do it with the help of spawn, which they can. and even if majestic is better (which i dont think is provable) all i said is that supes would keep him busy which you cant deny, besides you only said he was more experienced and ruthless than superman, superman is more than capable of keeping somone like that busy even with similar powers and everybody know that. finally, maybe bb can take them all out in a matter of seconds, but darkclaw can throw somekind of poison gas at any moment of the battle, i was just building up to khell's bests because its more dramatic.
scoobs: i know i have your vote now anyway (thanks) but for the sake of future debates, dont base spawn on what you read in either of the 2 horrible batman crossovers. anyone will tell you it's crap and spawn is capable of everything khell and i said he is in previous posts.
khell: i think if my team saw everybody on your team get behind bb they'd know something is up and do the same, non of them are dummies and in fact most of them have great instincts notably superman with his ability to think faster than most people and spidey's spider sence, they can place my entire team to join your behind bb to avoid the whisper. (which they wouldnt even have to do for most of my team is able to do the same on their own). and scoobs was talking about a final one on one between dark claw and an exhausted majestic, after the everyone else has been takin out so he couldnt have bb do anything to him.
Originally posted by Quick Freeze
khell: i think if my team saw everybody on your team get behind bb they'd know something is up and do the same, non of them are dummies and in fact most of them have great instincts notably superman with his ability to think faster than most people and spidey's spider sence, they can place my entire team to join your behind bb to avoid the whisper. (which they wouldnt even have to do for most of my team is able to do the same on their own). and scoobs was talking about a final one on one between dark claw and an exhausted majestic, after the everyone else has been takin out so he couldnt have bb do anything to him.
They wouldn't have to keep running. Once the team is behind him, Black Bolt can use his voice. I don't see them having to fall back anyways. And, I know he was talking about one on one versus Dark Claw, but I gave him a reason why BB would have survived Dak Claw, thus ithe scenario changed from one on one to two on one.