Originally posted by ares834
Not nearly as lopsided as you make it sound. Yes, Kit had the upper hand throughout the fight but I don't see enough to say he was owning the General nor does Kit taunt him. Rather he says the typical Jedi BS.
Well what do you consider "owning?" Kit didn't speed blitz him or anything, no.
And Kit's attitude did seem pretty taunting when he had Grievous on the floor.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So he fared worse against Ventress while using a style he's best at? Is that what you're saying?
Oh, here we go with this again. Yes Kit's casual tooling and taunting of Grievous is a "non-factor". I wonder why it took Obi Wan so much tries just to do just as good. I wonder why he couldn't even disarm a Grievous, who used only two blades against him on at least two occasions. But yeah, Kenobi is miles ahead of Fisto. 🙄[/]And if Kenobi does better when fighting offensively, then why doesn't he when he is up against Ventress? Why is it that your arguments contradict eachother. You say Kenobi is untouchable when utilizing soresu, but yet Ventress would have killed him in his most recent duel with her if it weren't for Anakin. So Ventress did better than Maul and Opress despite the fact that Obi Wan was using a style he was best at when fighting her.
But you're also the one who argues that one doesn't limit himself when he is not willing to kill his opponent.
It was better tactic to fight brothers offensively but that doesn't mean that Kenobi fights better offensively against single opponent. Also, Soresu cannot be used with two sabers.
And using best style doesn't mean that Kenobi has right mind set to give his best performance every time. One thing is when Kenoni relies on Anakin and another, when he faces uneven odds and most certain death.
Also, you ignore the fact that Kenobi improved since last encounter with Ventress.
Your attempt to elevate Fisto to Kenobi's level is futile. With same success I could argue that Kenobi is far above Dooku because Opress disarmed him with single attack and Force choked with split effort, while Kenobi defeated him, while fending off Maul. 💃
Arhael, you have no shame. lol
Ventress was able to best Kenobi while he was using a form that focuses on defense and protection, which, according to you, makes Kenobi harder to defeat. Maul and Savage were unable to defeat Kenobi while Kenobi was NOT using that same form. So how is it that Maul is better than Ventress?
Either you accept the possibility that Maul and Savage were not giving their best performance due to the fact that they wanted to take Kenobi alive instead of killing him (as confirmed in "The Lawless"😉, or you can believe that Ventress is far superior to the combined might of Maul and Savage.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Arhael, you have no shame. lolVentress was able to best Kenobi while he was using a form that focuses on defense and protection, which, according to you, makes Kenobi harder to defeat. Maul and Savage were unable to defeat Kenobi while Kenobi was NOT using that same form. So how is it that Maul is better than Ventress?
Either you accept the possibility that Maul and Savage were not giving their best performance due to the fact that they wanted to take Kenobi alive instead of killing him (as confirmed in "The Lawless"😉, or you can believe that Ventress is far superior to the combined might of Maul and Savage.
I don't think ABC logic works that way...
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well what do you consider "owning?" Kit didn't speed blitz him or anything, no.And Kit's attitude did seem pretty taunting when he had Grievous on the floor.
He didn't own him. Kit Fisto pretty much applies the Jedi version of Dun Moch during his duels, hell in the ROTS novel he still has a smile on his face when he gets his head chopped off.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Either you accept the possibility that Maul and Savage were not giving their best performance due to the fact that they wanted to take Kenobi alive instead of killing him (as confirmed in "The Lawless"😉, or you can believe that Ventress is far superior to the combined might of Maul and Savage.
Yeah Or it was Kenobi who didn't give his best performance against Ventress. Not to mention that was a peak performance for Ventress being in a rage enhanced state.
Heck at one point she was force choking both Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Also Kenobi was ordered to take Maul alive:
"If this is Darth Maul HIS CAPTURE is far too important to be left to Obi-Wan alone." -Mace Windu Episode "Revenge".
And also in "The Lawless" Kenobi outright states that he doesn't blame Maul and would rather turn him back to the LS than kill him.
Not to mention Arhael has given you a thorough thrashing on the "Taking them alive reduces performance" rubbish you keep spitting out when it suits your argument. It doesn't have a significant impact at all. The vast majority of SW sword fights end either with a physical attack, or with a limb chopped off.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He didn't own him. Kit Fisto pretty much applies the Jedi version of Dun Moch during his duels, hell in the ROTS novel he still has a smile on his face when he gets his head chopped off.
Dooku uses Dun Moch on Obi Wan, and you consider it as being playful. So what is the difference here? And how much more one-sided can a fight get before you consider it as an ownage?
Also, why does everyone have a problem with Kit and Obi Wan being on the same level? I mean Kit was consider one of the greatest duelist in the prime of the jedi order, so Obi Wan being placed on his level would automatically put him there as well? Is it because Kit was owned by Palpatine in seconds? Palpatine would own Kenobi as well. I don't see what the big problem is there, other than Kenobi being a fan-favorite and a popular/main character. Everyone can accept the fact that Palpatine would TK rape Kenobi, so what's so hard about accepting the fact that he would saber rape Kenobi as well? What is the difference? No matter how you look at it, Kenobi is still a complete non-factor to Palpatine.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not to mention Arhael has given you a thorough thrashing on the "Taking them alive reduces performance" rubbish you keep spitting out when it suits your argument. It doesn't have a significant impact at all.
The sad and funny part is, that you're the only person who believes Arhael's retarded rants about that. Arhael doesn't even believe that BS, he just hates to be wrong. Hell, not too long ago, Arhael's argument as to why Ventress easily took Obi Wan out of their last fight was: 'because Obi Wan wasn't trying to kill her.' Basically, he suggested that Obi Wan wasn't giving his best performance because he wasn't willing to kill. Arhael constantly changes his stances when it suits his arguments. So again, you're the only one who believes his BS, which isn't very surprising.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The vast majority of SW sword fights end either with a physical attack, or with a limb chopped off.
Palpatine ended three jedi masters with fatal blows, Maul ended Qui Gon with a fatal blow, Obi Wan ended Maul with a fatal blow, and I'm pretty sure dark side Anakin cut down a few jedi with fatal blows. (note: all these examples are from the movies alone.) Hmm, I wonder why they didn't just go for the wrists, ya know, since it's so much easier? Perhaps it's because it wasn't an option at the time, so they landed a strike on an opening that was available at the time. That's what you do when you're not limiting yourself.
Some advice for you: stop relying on Arhael's word, and start thinking for yourself. Just because Arhael is very knowledgeable on his SW lore, and posts sources (many of which are irrelevent to the argument, btw), doesn't mean he is "thrashing" someone in an argument. If you pay attention, you would realize that some of the sources he quotes, outright contradict his own arguments, and supports the arguments of the person he is arguing against. As The_Tempest said, Arhael's arguments are dictated by pride rather than logic. So do yourself a favor, and start evaluating what he is actually saying, and start thinking for yourself.
As a point of clarification, I do not mean to suggest that all of Arhael's arguments are dictated by pride nor do I mean to insinuate that he's a retard. I like him, he's pretty smart, and has made plenty of convincing cases in the past.
It just so happens that in this particular debate, he's on the losing side and has committed to it beyond reason. I doubt he'll be on my list forever, whereas the other two individuals are simply beyond intellectual redemption.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
As a point of clarification, I do not mean to suggest that all of Arhael's arguments are dictated by pride nor do I mean to insinuate that he's a retard. I like him, he's pretty smart, and has made plenty of convincing cases in the past.
I should not have dragged your name up in argument that you decided to leave. And I apologize if I made it seem like you were suggesting that he is a retard. I just agreed with a statement that you made about him regarding this argument, so I kinda quoted you.