FF vs. These four X-men redux

ok, that other thread got a little confusing, so let's qualify this a bit more for Round 2.

The Fantastic Four:

Reed Richards as of 2003
Sue Richards as of 2003
Johnny Storm as of 2003
Ben Grimm as of 2003

vs.

The X-men:

Jean Grey as of 2003
Storm as of 2003
Iceman as of 2003
Colossus as 2004

Go to it!

From the offset, Jean Grey? No Phoenix Force? Or are we talking Phoenix.

Coz the name says Jean Grey.

-AC

I'm still not fully sure if Astonishing X-Men is normal stream, so Colossus could also still be dead. Can you specify what their designated powers at that point as abilities are constantly changing unless told up to a certain issue; it's hard to remember what issue goes with what year after awhile.

I give this to the x-men. Storm can easily take out human torch because she already did in the contest of champions. i think that colossus will be able to take care of the thing(maybe). Ice man and jean can take out sue and reed. The only tough competion would be sue.

Oh no.

Not Contest of Champions again.

Does anyone actually realise that it was a series created purely for the purpose of "anyone can win"?

-AC

It doesn't matter, storm can counteract almost any of his powers!

Jean Grey at the level she was at in 2003. That means high level telepathy and telekinesis. THere will be NO debate about whether or not she's Phoenix - we're just using her appearances during 2003, which include realizing her potential in TP and TK.

WHat do you mean you're not sure if Astonishing is a normal stream? Of course it's in continuity - what gave you the impression that it was otherwise? It was even referenced in other X-titles.

Use the characters as you think of them now, man. Not their 1973 version, and not some weird AOA/Days of Futures Past version or anything else. As you think of them now. Jeez...

And Contest of Champions is fair game!

I always thought contest of champions was fair too, but according to AC their not.

Contest of Champions was created purely out of Chris Claremont's ego driven desire to have an everyone Vs everyone, anyone can win comic.

Do I detect a little Claremont bias just because he's been good to SOMEONE'S favourite character?

How is it fair game? Storm could never beat Torch.

Storm is much better to have in this fight than Nightcrawler I'll admit. What is she bringing effectively though? The weather (already have Ice-Man).

Unless it's some drastic change that could actually make their team vastly better, I back F4.

-AC

Storm is capable of taking out Mr. Fantastic. Something Nightcrawler can't do.

I'm not grumpy, I just don't see how a comic created for the very purpose of pitting characters against each other regardless of powers is fair game.

We all actually know Storm isn't capable of defeating Torch don't we?

-AC

And are you accusing me of Claremont bias? Perish the thought! Contest of Champions happened in this reality, in this continuity, in this timeline. So the results are valid and binding. It wasn't a What If, so it's perfectly fair to reference the results of the fights there on this board.

I think Storm is very much capable of taking out Torch. It's not like Torch radiates cosmic fire or anything. Wolverine took him out with a fire extinguisher, lol.

alpha... whether she could beat torch is debatable...

but seriously... she's one of the strongest mutants there is... 'the weather' is alot more powerful than you seem to realise...

All storm had to do was create a big gust of wind and torches flame was out and he was falling to the ground! She almost took him out with one attack. You are not giving storm enough credit! Torch had lured her into the basement of a building and burned all the support. the building was falling and storm manuvered her way out and used her wind to make the building fall on him. I find it impressive that storm alone could support a building long enough for herself to get out. She has taken him out once so why couldn't she do it again. Storm has numerous ways of taking out torch. Storm could also tako out reed because he might not be able to get a hold of her because she will be to fast for him. I'm not saying that she definitley could but its a true possibility.

I'd have to give this fight to the X-men. Colossus takes Thing in a close one. Jean mind-blasts Sue. And Iceman/Storm can choose from among Reed and Johnny and beat either. Johnny wouldn't nova flame with the rest of the group around, and that would have been his only means of taking out his two biggest threats in one shot. If he takes out Iceman, Storm will get him. If he takes out Storm, Iceman will get him. And I don't think Reed has quite enough oomph to save Johnny fast enough.

"And are you accusing me of Claremont bias? Perish the thought! Contest of Champions happened in this reality, in this continuity, in this timeline. So the results are valid and binding. It wasn't a What If, so it's perfectly fair to reference the results of the fights there on this board."

I never said you couldn't refer to it. Refer to it all you like.

I don't see how it's accurate being that it is factually just a fantasy match series. Regardless of mismatches. It's basically making people who aren't equal, equal, for the purpose of Claremont wanting to see them fight. If you can refer to that knowing how it is, then that's an extremely questionable outlook. It wasn't sold or marketed as a What If, but it was a comic series based on Claremont's "What if these characters fought?" "But she'd lose to him." "Nah but see, what if they were equal." "That wouldn't make sense." "Since when did anything I come up with make much sense?" "True."

Yes I am accusing you of Claremont bias because you clearly are. Am I wrong? All of his Magneto pushes are just coincidence?

Stormfront, you're going by Contest of Champions I trust?

On topic and considering their powers:

That not withstanding. I never demeaned Storm's power PR, she's powerful. Very. However it is essentially just the weather. The elements are gonna be inaffective against some of the F4.

"I'd have to give this fight to the X-men. Colossus takes Thing in a close one. Jean mind-blasts Sue. And Iceman/Storm can choose from among Reed and Johnny and beat either. Johnny wouldn't nova flame with the rest of the group around, and that would have been his only means of taking out his two biggest threats in one shot. If he takes out Iceman, Storm will get him. If he takes out Storm, Iceman will get him. And I don't think Reed has quite enough oomph to save Johnny fast enough."

I really don't understand why people have a habit of saying it like it's happened. It's a bit presumptuous to say it like that. Is there any point of creating a decent thread if all that's gonna happen is you come in and say "This happens to him, this happens to her. The X-Men win"?

You say I'm not giving Storm credit but you are saying they will or would do things. How do you know this? Could, might? Yes. Would, will? No.

-AC

They aren't really stating what has happened, they are getting ready for your posts, which will most likely contradict them. If they didn't say that, you would say that it was illogical or some bs like that. You have a habit of also saying what WILL happen (in your point of view, that is).

i dont even know where to begin

No I don't. I say what could and might happened based on the powers.

I never make a post like Demi just did, claiming how a fight will go in detail. Why? Coz I don't know how it'll go. Hasn't happened.

Please stop making every thread about me and how I post. Getting a little sick of being the centre of attention all the time.

-AC