Originally posted by Beyonder
Mider, that's a rumor spread around, probably by Superman fans. He never did such a thing. Michael or Spectre would wreck him if he ever tried something like that. How Prime would even arrive at Heaven is a mystery?He never did that. If he did, please provide issues or scans of Prime breaking down the gates of Heaven.
Yes, he did it. If I am not mistaken, you and I discussed this previously and I provided you with the issues.
...and I am not mistaken. Here was my response.
"Apologies on the Thanos w/THOTU response - I thought you were addressing me.
I will certainly try to dig up the Superman Prime issue numbers.
Hmm, here is a synopsis (still digging for issue numbers though...and whoa now. Found them. muahahaha):
"The fear lasted until one day at the turn of the 700th century AD when a haggard and haunted figure descended out of the skies above the planet Earth. Superman Prime, Kal-El of Krypton, the original Superman had returned to his adopted home. He had been places and dimensions that few had even knew of and even fewer understood. >>>>>He had wrestled with gods and demons. He had overturned hell and fought his way past the gates of Heaven looking for the soul of beloved Lois who due to his immortality he could never join in the afterlife.<<<< A haunted figure as removed from humanity as he had ever been his presence still caused a revolution in human society. To many it was the second coming of a legend from the past creating a spiritual revival and even worship of him from some, but he was beyond such social convention at that time."
Issues?
DC ONE MILLION #1-4, DC ONE MILLION 80-PAGE GIANT & DC1M crossovers.
FIRST APPEARANCE: SUPERMAN PRIME: HISTORICAL: ACTION COMICS #1 (June, 1938); CURRENT: background) SUPERMAN THE MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1998); (Golden Form) DC ONE MILLION #1 (November 1998)
SUPERMAN SECUNDUS: SUPERMAN MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1997).
SUPERMAN M*: (cameo) JLA (third series) #15; (February 1998); (full) JLA (third series) #23 (October 1998)"
Originally posted by Never
...and I am not mistaken. Here was my response."Apologies on the Thanos w/THOTU response - I thought you were addressing me.
I will certainly try to dig up the Superman Prime issue numbers.
Hmm, here is a synopsis (still digging for issue numbers though...and whoa now. Found them. muahahaha):
"The fear lasted until one day at the turn of the 700th century AD when a haggard and haunted figure descended out of the skies above the planet Earth. Superman Prime, Kal-El of Krypton, the original Superman had returned to his adopted home. He had been places and dimensions that few had even knew of and even fewer understood. >>>>>He had wrestled with gods and demons. He had overturned hell and fought his way past the gates of Heaven looking for the soul of beloved Lois who due to his immortality he could never join in the afterlife.<<<< A haunted figure as removed from humanity as he had ever been his presence still caused a revolution in human society. To many it was the second coming of a legend from the past creating a spiritual revival and even worship of him from some, but he was beyond such social convention at that time."
Issues?
DC ONE MILLION #1-4, DC ONE MILLION 80-PAGE GIANT & DC1M crossovers.
FIRST APPEARANCE: SUPERMAN PRIME: HISTORICAL: ACTION COMICS #1 (June, 1938); CURRENT: background) SUPERMAN THE MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1998); (Golden Form) DC ONE MILLION #1 (November 1998)
SUPERMAN SECUNDUS: SUPERMAN MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1997).
SUPERMAN M*: (cameo) JLA (third series) #15; (February 1998); (full) JLA (third series) #23 (October 1998)"
You've got me yet again Never. But then I went back to that thread we argued and dug this up:
quote: Beyonder
"Admittedly you do have me. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, you've only proven that he got past heaven's gate, not that he fought Micheal. If you have more on this, please provide it. Breaking through heaven's gate is impressive but it's not fighting Micheal. Furthermore, Thanos really can't break into any heaven since Marvel has no such place.Prime wrestling with demons and gods still doesn't gauge his powers. Mephisto is a demon, while Death herself is one of three essentials of the universe and greater in power than all death gods (pluto, Hela, Mephisto, etc.). Beating demons doesn't help; it's too ambiguos. How powerful are these demons? Did Prime beat the Devil himself or something?
Prime beating gods is ambiguous as well. What kinds of gods are we talking about here? Darkseid, Thor, Odin, Zeus, Orion are all considered gods. Beings higher in power than these guys can also be regarded as gods in a sense. Beating gods doesn't guage his powers either - unless you can specify what gods they're stating. If it's THE GOD then we would have somehting."
I admittedly am wrong. But so what do we have?
Prime breaking into Heaven's gate. But what does that prove. How a physical being can even break into Heaven's gate is beyond me.
Now he broke it, so what does that mean? That he can take Phoenix? It wasn't like he fought Spectre or Michael...and won. If he arrived and broke it and someone like Michael or Spectre opposed him and he beat them up, then it would be relevant. Him breaking into Heaven looking for Lois Lane tells us nothing of his power. For all we know Heaven didn't even oppose him cause there was nothing for him to find there.
Furthermore here's the list you posted Never on DC's hierarchy. Prime ain't beating Spectre or Michael.
The list we compiled of DC's most powerful:
DC:
1. The Presence
2. The Source
3. Rama Kushna
4. H'ronmeer
5.Meshta
6.Gyges and Garamas (with God power)
7.Great Evil Beast (appeared in an issue in which the Infinity Avengers kinda ripped off if you read it carefully)
8.Spectre at his full potential (omnipotent is unbeatable rather you're omnipresent or omniscient) <============================
9. Mawu (the religious God of Africa shown in Spectre #58 )
10.The Voice (An entity part of the Presence)
11.The Word
12. Wally the God Boy
13. Lucifer Morningstar
14. Archangel Michael <===========================
15. The Aleph
16.Decreator
17. The 5th Dimensional Imps (Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bane-Mite, and Thunderbolts)
18. Ultimator, and other races and beings include 4d to 10d
19. ID (A 6th dimensional being created by the Cathexis that could fullfill one's wish. Unlimited Powers)
20. Parallax
21. Ion
22. Uni-Friend
23. Anti-Life Entity
24. Eclipso
25. Mistos
26. Satan
27. Stigmonus Monsieur
28. Sinestro after death when he faced the Spectre
29.First of the Fallen
30. Azmodus
31. DC's Archangels- Gabriel (probably most powerful archangel next to Michael), Amenadiel, Sandalphon, Ramiel, Duma, ect.
32 DC's Angel Host- Bull Host, Eagle, Lion, and Human rather Zauriel and Asmodel at angelic form
33. Anti-Monitor and Monitor
34. Hyperman
35. The Endless
36. Entropy (Krona)
37. Kismet
38.Dominus
39. Oblivion
40. Chaos and Order (2 elemental force)
41. Lord of Chaos/Lord of Order
42.Black Racer
43. The Kindly Ones
44. Voiceless Gods
45. Mahu
46.Seviram
47. That giant monster Lucifer unleashed to stop Amenadiel's army, and anything Lucifer has faced
48. A
49. King of Tears
50. Hawkgod
51. Elder Gods
52.Dark Gods
53.Shattered Gods
54. Rao, and other gods of Krypton
55. Candlemaker
56.Dorothy Spinner (IMO, imp-like level in which she can create by thinking it)
57. Telephone Avatar
58. Shadowy Mr. Evans
59. Carnivore (Almost took over heaven)
60. Anti-Matter Man
61. Glorith and the original Time Trapper
62. Promethian Giants
63. Millennium Giants
64. Extant
65. Monarch
66. The Seven Deadly Enemy of Man
67. Cosmic Gamblers
68. S'ivaa the Destroyer
69. Brimstone
70. Pantheon gods- African like Shango the Thunderer, Oloron the First Born, Norse gods like Odin and Loki, Greek gods like Zeus and Hercules, Japanese gods like Susano-o-no-makota and Izanami, Egypton gods like Osirect and Ra, ect.
71. The Unimaginables
72. Ibac/Sabbac- the 2 Capt. Marvel villain which 1 was a clone and another had power like with black magic
73. Neron, the demon that demoted Neron from hell, Abaddon the Destroyer, Adramelech, Agony & Ectacy, One in Charge of Punishment of the Damned in Effrul, Keeper of the Oracle of Styx, and since I don't feel like listing everyone from hell, I'll just estimate: 300-400 leaders/higher rank in Hell
74. The 3 Demons- Rath, Ghast, and Abnegazar
75. The race who got rid of the demons- Timeless Ones
76. Lord Satanis
77. Lord Satanus
78. Second and Third of the Fallen (Brothers of First of the Fallen)
79. Mad God of 3600
80. The First Citadelian and his clone armies and the other Citadelians
81. Oblivion II- one that faced Wonder Woman
82. Auron
83. X'Hal
84. Superman Prime <----------------------------------
85. Everyone in the 853rd Century including Manhunter from Mars
86. Wonderworld race and heroes
87. Maggedon
88. Old Gods- Wotan, Lokee, Arzaz, Nameless One
89. Guardian of the Universe
90. Controllers
91. Zamarons
92. Progenitor- This guy created his own galaxy and a whole race
93. Fernus and the Burning Martians
94. Anti-Sun
95. Imperiex Prime and Imperiex probes
96. Yuga Khan
97. Nebula Man
98. Orion at his true form (the one that Astro once posted in Alvaro's)
99. Orion with the ALE
100. Darkseid one with the Source from NG v4
101. Izaya one with the Source in a New Gods v4 issue
102. Euricros
103. Clocxwerk
104. Hourman 3/Warlogog
Here's my list.
1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe/Pre-Reconned Beyonder
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Shuma Gorath/Dormammu
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Cyttarok/Surtur/Ymir/Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe/Mangog/Kurse
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart/Ronan The Executioner
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord/Enchantress
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing
Here's an entire thread on people's opinion about how Marvel's hierarchy should be listed:
Originally posted by Never
Did anyone...****ever***** say...that Prime beat Michael?Ever? No.
Micheal let him pass, IIRC.
Sheesh.
Michael let him past? 'Kay. But could you provide me with the exact issue of Prime breaking into Heaven & Michael letting him past. I ain't got enough money to buy all those issues you listed. Just give me the exact issue that happened in.
Or better yet, just scan it.
Let's put that aside for a moment. How does Prime breaking into Heaven's gate a feat to list since nobody opposed him? It's like Mr. Smith goes to Washington. He went alright, but that doesn't make him the President of the U.S. or qualifies to be Secretary of Defense.
Do you know anything about DCU?
Are you familiar with the suffix "-el?"
You know it generally references an angEL, correct?
Kal-EL. GabriEL. MichaEL. In DC? Asmod-EL.
The JLA (specifically Zauri-EL) defeated AsmodEL, Bull Host of...some high ranking order of angELS. Do you think that MichaEL sits at the GATES?
No, he does not. Other angELS do, and Prime made his WAY to MichaEL.
I obviously cannot provide you with the exact issue because I cannot RECALL what the exact issue (hence my providing you with that LIST). I will see if one of my cohorts CAN, and after that, I will provide you with the issue.
It happened. You are wrong. Sorry.
Like some more names of angELs to further illustrate my point?
ZadkiEL, MuriEL, ZacharaEL, AmbriEL, AftiEL, AbEL, AbdiEL, AnixiEL, ModiniEL, NariEL, NoaphiEL, OmaEL, OumriEL.
As far as Kal-EL, okay, I will not assume that all are aware of the comparisons that the Superman figure has drawn to Jesus.
Superman, Son of Jor-EL? Jesus, Son of God? Spaceship landing in a field after having to escape Krypton? Kal-El, Clark; EmmanuEL (Jesus' name according to the AngEL of the Lord), Jesus.
*shrug*