ROTS Count Dooku vs. ROTJ Luke

I've also considered that a lot. Does Vader lose because Luke is that much better than he is, or because Vader was conflicted with his loyalties? Certain spoilers indicate that Luke indeed could have surpassed Vader(only because of Vader's injuries) but never the less, Luke was AMAZINGLY powerful with little training.

Luke wasn't powerful, Vader was weak.

WHOA! Luke was powerful! Lucas has even said Luke was as powerful as Windu by ROTJ. I admit he lacked the skills needed, but his incredible gifts help make up for it.

Lucas said that? I find that very hard to believe it if he did. I doubt that with the little training Luke did get that, even though he was gifted and had potential, he would be anywhere near as powerful as Master Windu when he faced Vader in ROTJ.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
WHOA! Luke was powerful! Lucas has even said Luke was as powerful as Windu by ROTJ. I admit he lacked the skills needed, but his incredible gifts help make up for it.

LUKE AS POWERFUL AS WINDU BY RETURN OF THE JEDI!!!!!! WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

Mace Windu is one of the most powerful Jedi in the whole saga. Lightsaber skill wise, you can argue that he is even better than Yoda.

Sure the force was with Luke, but overally, he was still a young and VERY inexperienced Jedi. He had only a few days of training with Yoda before he left and had an overall of like two years of experience! His incredible gifts are no where NEAR enough to make up for that much of a deficit. When he fought Darth Vader in ROTJ, after Vader mentions Leia, Luke was just slashing at Vader without even LOOKING at where Vader was. It worked because Vader at that time was quite weak, but against Mace? Not a chance.

If Mace and Luke were to battle it out, Luke would get sliced and diced!

I normally believe George Lucas' statements, but this one is much too out of hand.

^^My thoughts exactly.

There's more to consider than just the force being with Luke, the will of the force is with him. the very thing that created Anakin, aided obi-wan in the duel, and empowered luke to assist Anakins return.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
There's more to consider than just the force being with Luke, the will of the force is with him. the very thing that created Anakin, aided obi-wan in the duel, and empowered luke to assist Anakins return.

Darth Nefarus, I can see your point, but the thing is, will of the force or not, Luke didn't need to be very powerful to persuade Anakin to turn back to the light side. The reason why it succeeded was probably because Luke was Anakin's son. Anakin couldn't let the emperor kill his own beloved son. The emperor underestimated the power of love between father and son, so the result was, he was ultimately destroyed.

Yeah, doesn't have much to do with strength, but with the bond that connects family. Luke and Anakin had the bond but without it, Luke would've been toast 'cause there would've been nothing to stop the Emperor deep-frying Luke's body.

I agree with those points, but I'm still going to argue that Luke is incredibly powerful. He would have to be, based on his father, and the fact the lightside of the force used him as a conduit. I mean, no one else had the powers of the lightside inside him at that moment.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
I agree with those points, but I'm still going to argue that Luke is incredibly powerful. He would have to be, based on his father, and the fact the lightside of the force used him as a conduit. I mean, no one else had the powers of the lightside inside him at that moment.

I'm starting to think, dude, that you're part of the Skywalker religion. But hey, I admire your stance. Even if I disagree. But anyways, Luke had amazing potential, but i doubt he was anywhere on the level of Mace Windu by ROTJ, because if he was, then why did he almost die half a million times in the movie?

I'm saying he has the gifts, not the skills. Luke hasn't fully realized what the force is capable of, and if he knew that the force created his father, I think he might have a knew understanding/appreciation for his powers.

I admit he was not as good with a saber or control of his powers as Mace, but I still argue he had just as much if not more.

True enough. In potential he probably was a lot more. But the circumstance here is ROTJ Luke versus MAce, right? He didn't have the uumph he needed at that point to defeat Mace, unless some Force-led fate hogwash saved his bacon.

But Mace's lightsaber does say bad mother f*cker....

Yes, it does. You took that test too? I am officially a Jedi Master.

different eras yet again.....prob dooku.....

Personly i like sith more but i would say luke because he can turn angry and not turn to the dark side giveing him the edge in battel

Luke's kinda slow

Well, if Luke is only slow because they had to move slower because they couldn't totoscope as well back then.
Luke did learn from Obi-Wan, then Yoda. Far as I'm concerned he could have been fast they just didn't film it that way.

Yes, it does. You took that test too? I am officially a Jedi Master