Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As far as NIN being this generation's Led Zeppelin, doubt it. Trent is one man, he's a very talented one man but he's no Tool. A band who I believe hold more right to that title.-AC
I know a hell of a lot of people who would disagree with you, hence the 'arguably' part.
I like Tool more than NIN, always have, and they have produced some material that is quite easily superior to NIN, but I have to say I hold Trent in much higher individual regard than Justin, Danny, Adam and even Maynard. Trent made Pretty Hate Machine, one of the most influencial and important albums of the last two decades, entirely on his own. No band, no backing singers, no high-paid editors, just him. That is one hell of an achievement. He is a musical genius, no two ways about it. I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be up there with Zeppelin and Hendrix and what not.
Well to be perfectly honest, I like Pretty Hate Machine and I really like The Downward Spiral. PHM sounded like it was recorded in an echoey room, the drums sounded like a bee trying to get out of a paper bag. He hadn't found out that doing EVERYTHING alone with little production doesn't pay off. Hence why there are loads of people on the credits on The Fragile. He even CO-wrote songs and had people playing on the albums after PHM.
However, I don't believe Trent become someone who ranked up really high until he put out The Fragile. The Fragile is why I love NIN SO much. If he put out another TDS I can't say I'd hold him in as high regard. The fact that he does do it on his own doesn't blind me to the music he puts out. He's had one influencial INDUSTRIAL record, another record that was famous for a couple of songs and then the sprawling, soundscape genius double album.
Up there with Hendrix? Hardly. NOBODY will ever be able to do what Hendrix did, Billy Corgan can already do what Trent does, and do it better. He's a better pianist and one of the best technical guitarists there is (See most of Mellon Collie).
-AC
He had no money at the time, you really can't blame him for that.
I disagree. The Downward Spiral was the album that really put him on the map. All albums that people aren't familiar with are remembered by the big songs. People who don't have TDS will know Closer, Hurt and March Of The Pigs, people who don't have The Fragile will know The Day The World Went Away, We're In This Together and Into The Void. Point is, TDS was a huge critical success, and it sold a whole bunch too. In fact I think it's definitely a better album than The Fragile overall.
Well seeing as in my view what Hendrix did was become overrated by writing average songs that came packaged with some admittedly stunning guitar work, I don't see why.
I don't know about that, the only piano-based songs Trent has played have been deliberately very simple. He's been playing piano since he was very very young. Billy Corgan could not produce something as huge and powerful as say The Fragile with the amount of independence Trent has. No way.
With regards to Billy/Trent. He's already put out Mellon Collie. I think that album is better than anything Trent has ever put out, by far. Trent doesn't drum on his own. Neither does Billy. If Billy wanted to put together an album with just him and Jimmy C he could do so.
I think The Fragile is NIN/Trent's best work, I don't think it will be surpassed because for one, it's a double album full of genius. It's hard to surpass that with a single album. I don't think he should be mentioned in the same vein as Hendrix. He's a genius, extremely talented, however when you get deep down, the music is TECHNICALLY nothing amazing. Not that it matters, coz I love it, but the guitar is simple, piano is simple, drums are simple. You can't say the same with a Smashing Pumpkins record. Trent isn't nearly as apt on a guitar as Corgan, arguably on piano either. So how he ranks with the semi-official best guitarist of all time, I don't get.
-AC
Mellon Collie suffers from the same problem as The Fragile; with 20+ songs, the odd filler track is inevitable. It is better than anything Trent has done, with the exception of TDS. Sure Billy could, but who's to say it would be good?
I've always had the opinion that The Fragile was just an elongated version of TDS with a slightly altered atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, I love The Fragile, it's certainly one of my 50 favorite albums of all time, but TDS has almost everything The Fragile has technically, and everything it has musically. It's also darker, faster paced and never runs out of steam like The Fragile does half way through the right disc.
I'm sorry, but complexity does not make music good. It can make good music, but just because something has more time changes or lengthy guitar solos, it doesn't mean it's superior. Anyway, Trent Reznor has an eye for a hook that is completely unequalled by all but a few, and that is an amazing gift in its self. I mean how does he know what other people are going to find catchy? Musical gifts come in all kinds of sizes and shapes, and to put it literally, while Hendrix's might be a circle and Trent's might be a square, they are still equally as gifted, just in different ways. This has nothing to do with guitars, that's way too specific.
Mellon Collie not being as good as TDS is your opinion.
TDS and The Fragile both deal with one recurring theme, well TDS tells a story whilst The Fragile deals with human fragility pretty much. I think that as with all NIN, you can tell it's NIN. I don't think they're similar at all though. Not completely different but not similar.
If you read what I wrote, I said complexity doesn't matter. However, when we're talking about musicianship it does. I believe Billy and Hendrix put out MUCH better music than Trent. Comparing Billy to Trent is to me, giving Trent too much credit.
I don't think him and Hendrix are equally as talented. Trent is never gonna be as revered, remembered or acclaimed as Hendrix because masters of the art recognise that what Hendrix did is unparalleled. The very fact that I can make an incredibly strong case as to why Billy is better, shows that Trent doesn't deserve to be put in the same vein as Hendrix. TDS isn't a very CONSISTANT album. It has songs that I can gladly skip, not saying I can't do that on The Fragile but on a single album, having tracks that you sometimes wanna skip, isn't a good thing. I've never had that with Billy Corgan. When you compared PHM, TDS and The Fragile to Gish, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, I think Billy takes it on all of them, except maybe the first one.
-AC
Oh yeah, I read it wrong. Must be the cocaine, I knew I shouldn't have trusted that Albanian guy.
Well, honestly apart from the seven CD's of his music I have and love, I know very little about Corgan, so I won't push my luck. That sounded quite scary anyway.
In my view,
PHM, TDS & TF > Gish, Adore, Machina
PHM, TF < Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie
TDS > Gish, Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie (just), Adore, Machina
Pisces Iscariot > Broken, Fixed, FDTS, TFA etc.
No no I wasn't being sarcastic, I seriously know very little about Corgan as individual. I've never seen him live and apart from the Pumpkins I've never really taken much of an interest in him.
If you'd have asked me the same thing 3 years ago, I would have responded the same way.
Mellon Collie & TDS are close, but TDS is more powerful. Mellon Collie has parts which are just well...wussy. James Iha should never be allowed to sing, he turns songs to sappy, gooey love-mush.