Darth Revan vs. Exar Kun

I'm still here Darth Revan33, I just went on holiday for a bit. By the way, nice post, well layed out.

However, about Malak saying that he didn't think it was possible for Revan to get any stronger than he was, well thats nice and all, but Malak was not the best judge. He hadn't been sith lord that long, and maybe never even saw Revans full power. Yes Revan was incredible, but I'm not sure how much stronger he would have been at the end of KotOR than he was before, because remember beofre he did have all that knowledge.

And about never seeing Revans full powers, good point (by the way, does anyone know when KotOR 3 is coming out), but we never really saw Exars full powers either. Yes he is now dead, but he was faced against over a thousand jedi, nobody could stand against that. However, what we did see of Exar was more impressive battle wise than Revan, Revan may have more brains, but battlewise, what we know of Exar is more impressive.

Kun was able to walk into the heart of the republic senate, freeze them all, kill their leader and a jedi master, and walk out, nobody could do a thing. This is in the heart of the jedi order! He was also able to kill a beast which is probably very similar to a terentek, or better, with very few problems. Exar was also able to walk into another jedi stronghold (Ossus), kill more jedi, steal the artifacts, and walk out again, unharmed. He was also able to destroy Freedon Nadd with no problems.

Now, lets go over what Revan did in combat (not tactics). He was able to kill Mandalore, Yusanis, 4 terentek (2 at the same time), Ajunta Pall's spirt, dozens of sith on the star forge, Darth Bandon and Darth Malak, that we know of. I'm not counting the troopers becuause I think we all agree that any sith lord could deal with troopers, the fact that Revan killed dozens doesn't really matter.
Now, that is an impressive list, however, I again think we can all agree that Exar could have killed Mandalore and Yusanis. I'm just guessing, but I will say that the beast he killed is the equal to a terentek, and since Revan had help on some of the others, I think Exar could have done that too. About Ajunta Pall's spirt, well this is difficult, we don't know who is stronger, Nadd or Pall, however I do think Pall. But to defeat him, Revan did have 2 other people with him, 2 people that Exar didn't have when he killed Nadd. Not sure who you had with you when you killed Pall, but I had Candarous and Hk-47. Now if Exar had an assassin droid and a mandalorian with him, I think he could have killed Ajunta as well. Now, we reach the sith section, I will just discount the dozens of sith on the star forge, I think that any decent sith lrod could have done that. Bandon, again the same thing, he was an apprentice so any decent sith lord could kill him. Now Malak, a good fight, but I think that if him and Exar were to meet, Exar would blow what remains of his jaw off. So really, from what we have actually seen of Revan in combat, Exar (or most other sith) could have done that as well. Not saying Revan's bad, hes very powerful. But, he's more of a tactician.

If this were just brains, Revan, but in battle, Exar, though it would be close.

Against malak just take out his little jedi friends early then malak's a nobody against the power of Revan. Though I do agree Revan's forte is tactics

Hmm. Good Points. I didn't realize how many similar things they did. As for Ajunta's spirit, I always go to Korriban last, so I am at my most powerful when I fight Ajunta Pall. But still, there's no need for others, (you dont actually need any) I can kill Ajunta Pall in two or three attacks. I personally think that Freedon was stronger than Pall. Now moving on to Exar Kun's spirit. He was destroyed by twelve padawan Jedi and only two of them had lightsabers. That was weaker than I thought he should have been and I know there's no way to compare that to Revan, but Ajunta's spirit put up more of a fight than that.

Lastly, I do agree that Exar Kun could probably have done most of the things that Revan did, but on the other hand, Revan could have probably done most of the things that Exar Kun did. Another point, Malak would have been the best judge of Revan's power while he was the Dark Lord of the Sith (first time) because Malak was Revan's apprentice for two years. Then seeing Revan on the Star Forge, it must have been difficult for a guy like Malak to say that Revan was even stronger since then. No, its not proof, but there would be no point in Malak lying. So there's probably a 99% chance that its true.

To Julie's other post: If Revan returned to the Light Side then I think that Exar Kun would have won because Revan would no longer have the power of all that knowledge from Malachor V, the Sith artifacts, teachings, etc. Also Revan is referred to as a 'he' on the KOTOR 2 official website, not to mention in KOTOR 2 if you set Revan's gender to female there are still some instances where people mess up and call her a male. About the Dark Side part, it does say in th official KOTOR 2 website chronicles that after Revan defeated Malak, DARK LORD OF THE SITH, DARTH REVAN traveled to the unknown regions, etc. Also it goes much better with the storyline that way. No one ever mentions Vandar in KOTOR 2, Mission, Zaalbar, Jolee, Juhani, etc. The Jedi are all but extinct, and if Revan was on the light side, I couldn't see him just leaving Bastila (whom is not fighting against the Sith for some reason). The dark side ending just seems to fit better.

well i still think exar would win, because he was prolly the1 with best teachers.
he was suppose to be turned to dark side by ghosts of sith lords on koriban, so taught by sith lords is somethin revan didnt have.
also revan was great tactician, but in 1-1 duel would it help? dont think so.
revan did acomplish bunch of great stuff, but so did exar, and if a game was made about exar, i am pretty sure there were also more extreme stuff then killin Pall and 2 terentatek.

so dont get me wrong, i love revan, but exar ws just more powerfull

I agree with Naga Sadow, being trained by the ancients is something that Revan didn't have. He did have Trayus Academy, but learning from books and learning from a person are different things.

About Exar being defeated by 12 people, only 2 which had lightsabers, might I add that one of those people was Luke Skywalker, another was Kun's old master, a 4000 year old jedi master. Also, I think its impressive that it took 12 jedi combined, 2 of which were masters, to defeat Kun's ionized air particles.

Kun was also able to dominate jedi master Luke, not at his prime sure, but still powerful. I doubt that Revan could have done that.

Nope, Exar wins.

Although I think that Revan would win, I must say that was at an extreme disadvantage when he was fought and defeated at Luke's Academy. I came up with a theory on one of these threads(might have been this one) that the power of a force ghost degrades over time. The reason for this was because after a time Obi-won was no loger able to talk to Luke as a ghost. This only took about 5 years. In the ROTS novel it says that Obi-won is one of the strongest Jedi alive at the time. This meens that Exar Kun has to have been extreemly powerful to talk, much less fight, fourteen Jedi at the same time.

Maybe light side ghosts get weaker, but Exar Kun somehow killed Gantoris as a spirit 4,000 years later. He also was able to Force Choke some of them, though they were then able to resist it.

To Revan Darkstar: true that its better to learn from a teacher, but Freedon didn't teach Exar Kun much of anything. He saved Kun's life twice by making him use the dark side and then Kun destroyed Freedon's spirit. Not much teachings and Revan was an exceptional learner with far more knowledge to learn from. a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge and 4 tombs on Korriban. And what do you mean Kun dominated Luke? When? All they did was talk unless you're counting the part where he AND Kyp tore Luke's spirit from his body.

Nope, Darth Revan wins.

I guess you have a point, both Exar and Kyp did combine to take on Luke, but Kyp didn't really do a lot, Exar was the one who provided the power, knowledge and guided the power. He was also the one to get the sun crusher from the heart of the sun, also impressive, but that is something Revan could have done too I guess.

About the force ghosts, I think the point that was trying to be made was, that if they get weaker over time, which I think is true, explains the Obi-Wan thing, also explains why Ajunta Pall has no memory and isn't that strong. But if they get weaker over time, then Exar must have been VERY powerful to still be able to rip Luke soul from his body, guide the sun crusher, choke people etc.

Well, actually it was more of Kyp's power and Exar Kun helping, to get the sun crusher out of Yavin's core. I still don't think the Force ghosts get weaker, if they did, and after 4,000 years Exar's spirit was that strong? Back when he wasn't a spirit, Exar would have been able to blink and kill every living being within a 10 mile radius, including Revan. Maybe some Force ghosts get weaker, or maybe it was because Exar drained the Massassi life force into himself that preserved his power. it's hard to tell.

After seeing all this back and forth, I want to read more about Exar Kun and decide for myself.

But to be honest, until Revan dies, his full potential remains undecided. Exar Kun's fate has already been made known to us. Based on speculation, I would argue that Revan could win. And also, most importantly, he could know a great deal about Exar's methods as he was quite fond of history, too.

Does anyone here think that Kyp Durron could ever even dream of standing up to someone like Exar Kun, Maga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, or Darth Bane in a fight? No.... Well that is exactly right. Yet he was still a Dark Lord of the Sith. And correct me if I'm wrong and you have PROOF that Revan just declared that he was the next Dark Lord of the Sith because Ulic would have been Exar Kuns succesor if he hadn't been redeamed. This means that Revan pucked the title out of the air just like Kyp Durrin. That shows a mighty King.

By the way, I think Revan would win, but give Kun the respect he deserves.

Power is for those who take it, and for those who use it. Kun's respect lies with him in his grave, which he made for himself. Revan's respect thrives until he disappoints me. When he fails to utilize that power, I'll consider changing my thoughts. But to me, at least, Revan is an ideal Sith lord. Devious, brilliant, capable, and able to survive where few could. Exar Kun was many things, from unbelieveably powerful to amazingly capable in a duel. But he's dead. And dead men tell few tales.

well, think of it this way. if exar wouldnt die, the republic would collapse. and that would ruin the whole movie script. revan however, didnt have to die to preserve any story.
so its all basicly GL's fault.

Working around GL's movies with EU is a bit like digging for pennies in a mine field. Messy messy work and no real glory.

well about Exar being dead, true and I can't (and won't) argue that. But think about how he died, he was faced against 10 000 jedi, and the republic fleet. Under those circumstances, anyone would have died, including Revan. Yet, Exar was able to kill off an entire race, numbering thousands, to keep himself alive, sure he was killed 4000 years later, but it still took 14 jedi, 12 padawans, Luke and Kuns old master to kill him. Think about it, 2 lightsabers, 12 padawans/knights, 2 jedi masters (including one of the most powerful jedi eveer, Luke and the old version of Yoda, Vodo-Baas, he trained lots of jedi, for some reason I think of him like an old Yoda), to kill off Kun's 4000 year old ionized air particles! He must have been near godlike when he was alive. Revan is good too, but his strength is tactics, yes he can beat Malak, but so could have Exar, and likely Ulic, Kuns apprentice.

Also, for more proof about Exar being more powerful than Revan, when Kun walked, the ground shook underneath him from the shear power of the dark side eminating from his body. If that happened to Revan, you would find out in the first 10 seconds of KotOR that you are Revan since the whole ship would be shaking underneath you.

No, Kun would win, his forte was fighting and combat, Revans was tactics and organizing, recruiting armies. Maybe if it were both or their empire vs each other, then Revan's tactics might lead him to a (probably) stunning victory, but in 1 on 1 combat, Exar would win.

The ground shook underneath him? Like, everywhere? So much for Sith stealth.

Well, with what we have now I suppose Exar Kun could win a duel. A straight battle, sure. But that could change within time. KOTOR 3 is about a year or two away from completion, I'm guessing.

Yeah, i had no idea that the ground shook when Exar walked. The info things always tend to leave stuff like that out.

Someone mentioned George Lucas earlier, and i would just like to point out that Lucas only seems to care about the movies and probably knows less than we do on the expanded universe. he said in the ROTJ dvd that Boba Fett dies in the Sarlaac pit but we all know he didn't. That shows how much George knows. So whatever he says about the movies is probably true but anything else he probably has no idea.

Darth Glentract: Before you post again, please finish KOTOR or read through the chronicles on the KOTOR 2 official website. Self proclaimed or not, Darth Revan earned it just as much as Exar Kun and it was 40 years after anyway. The Emperor was self proclaimed but he was still the emperor. The original Dark Lords of the Sith were self proclaimed for crying out loud! The only other thing i will agree on is that Kyp was wrong about his self proclamation and no, he couldnt have taken down any of the guys you mentioned.

yeah, I agree, the ground shaking would sort of wreck the sith stealth, but I guess he was so powerful he didn't really need it.

And yes, Kyp was no sith lord, he wasn't even worth to shine Bandon's armor, let alone be a dark lord of the sith

Bandon. Ow... Speaking of pitiful Sith lords.

That reminds me. On the link I found with the Sith definition in Wilkipedia, they have a list of Sith that we've only heard bits about. Buncha losers who probably got sabered by clever or angry apprentices. I bet the real reason why Sidious had to play good guy was because his life insurance would have jumped up had anyone known he was a Sith.

you're probably right, it might go like this

Employment: "I'm a sith lord"

Holy ****, your monthly payments are now 100 000 000 dollars please, thank you come again.

Sidious: NOOOOOOOOO!