ArekExcelsior2
Senior Member
It's not faster than light. I notice none of the Z Fighters moving back in time. They meant "Faster than the human eye can see" and "Fast enough to dodge light speed projectiles." Perhaps truly far in the series they can move at light speed. Maybe.
I think Goku has at least 90% of the strength of Supes, a power boosting ability (Kaioken), ki barriers, and energy blasts that humiliate Supes' best shots. Goku takes this one.
Re: Jason's comment: Yes, they're as meaningless as "pre-Crisis era Superman". What makes them meaningful is this thing called CONTEXT. We know that Master Roshi can ostensibly destroy the moon (or at least obfuscate it from sight), that Vegeta at far below SS levels could wreak enough harm to destroy the planet, etc. While I have my theories as to the nature of DBZ and relative power with other continuities, it's fairly irrelevant. At the least, Goku is within the same league as Superman.
The measure is of a warrior's "ki", which manifests itself in boosted strength, speed, energy projecting abilities, flight, etc. etc. We know that this is the case because certain techniques momentarily increase someone's power level, because they rely on a focusing and summoning of normally latent energy.
Frankly, whatever DBZ's flaws, at the least characters notably mature and someone's strategy and technique matter just a little bit. Most fights on this forum are simple cock-size matches - manga typically adds techniques, which requires thinking beyond what square section of land someone can destroy.
At the end of GT, Goku has become united with objects of immeasurable power that grant wishes. Think Thanos.
Re: Kento: Actually, Goku was apparently inches away from a sun far before he was Super Saiyan. Further, doing some mathematical manipulation leads me to the conclusion that Goku could probably destroy the sun, let alone survive on it. Further, Goku may be dumb normally... just as dumb as someone who thinks that a dumb suit and some glasses will obfuscate the fact that he's a reporter with pecs that can kill a man. In combat, however, Goku is legendarily brilliant. His character is derived from the Monkey King character who was similarly contingently intelligent.
The highest estimate I've seen of Superman's raw muscular strength is 250,000 tons. Goku was training under 400 times normal gravity - that means he was supporting 80000 pounds at least OF HIS OWN WEIGHT. That was far before he was a SSJ3.
Re: Sound explanation for Superman's bio-field: My ass. Moving to a sun you're not used to does not give you superpowers, it gives you radiation sickness. It's fine as a story contrivance, just like ki is, except ki has a mythological precedent.
Because of the unique biology of a Saiyan/Saiyajin, Goku's raw muscular strength alone seems to me to rival Superman. After all, he has survived blows that normally destroy planets. Add in ki and his ability to alter his power (including momentarily increasing it) and his ranged attacks and he is victorious.
I will grant that a Z Fighter can be caught off guard and harmed more than Superman, but Superman has been pummeled by someone who got him in the wrong place. Superman was harmed by a nuke and pummeled by a future old Batman (admittedly after Kryptonite exposure, but still). We see Imperfect Cell easily survive an entire army's weaponry, whereas Superman does get harmed by direct blows from heavy missiles.