O.K. so why did PJ come close to ruining the movies by putting you in it so much? The books hardly mention you, but you are a major player in the films. Doesn't that bother you? They took a story out of the Simirilian, applied it to the LotR, and thus made Liv Tyler a major character. They gave Arwen credit for rescuing Frodo when it wasn't her. Just wondering if I am the only one that was annoyed at this.
Hhmm, another Tolkien purist, eh? 😉
For your question, no. You're not the only one. Go to several other forums and you will see that there are more movie-Arwen haters. Not just you. However, I'm not one of them. 😉
It doesn't bother me at all. I was actually glad for what they did. Just imagine having a certain Elf princess going in the coronation and marrying the King. Who the hell is she? We haven't seen her before. You see, they have to give her character development and more screentime to be able for the movie-goers to believe. This movie wasn't made just for the Tolkien scholars you see. They are made for everyone, so they have to sacrifice some of the "truths" from the book.
Hhmm, they took out a storyline in "The Silmarillion", I wonder what that is. Beren and Luthien's storyline? Perhaps, but it's not entirely made-up by the filmmakers. The two love stories have some similarities already even way back from the book, so it's not impossible for them to do that.
They gave Arwen credit for saving Frodo? Again, this is a movie, not the book. 😉 The book had Glorfindel, the movie did not, obviously. And I don't think they needed Glorfindel so badly. What for? He'll rescue Frodo, then what? No character development to follow, and he'll disappear for the entire rest of the movie. Just give his role to the one that needs more character development and could do the job. 😉
I'm sorry. I know I'm not Aniron, but for some reason, I felt the need to answer. I'm not her die hard fan, but I just wanted to express my views. This is a hundred year old topic already, and yet I don't get tired of it. 🙂
Just to emphasize a point again...Never connect the movie with the books. They are two separate things. It's a movie. It's a movie. It's a movie. It's a movie. It's a movie. Movie | Book. Not Movie = Book. I should go see those movies to experience them for themselves. Not experience the movie as a visual of the book.
The only reason they did all that was for money. By adding Arwen as a major character, they attracted more women to the cineplexes. I believe that was their goal, and that is wrong. If they altered the books to maybe make some things flow better, fine. If they took some things out so the movies weren't eight hours each, fine. Making things up to sell more tickets? That's wrong. And when you have such a long loved epic that has been read by millions, you need to stay with the story. I don't mind Hollywood altering some books, but not books as old and as loved as these.
Originally posted by Ddraiglais
The only reason they did all that was for money.
🙄
Money is beside the point. After all, what type of media doesn't do whatever they do because of the money as one of the reasons? Harry Potter movies being made was also for the money, the Matrix movies, especially the sequels were made also for the money, Britney Spears kept on recording her songs for the money. Money is one of the reasons why EVERYTHING is being made. Besides the biological factors of course.
Putting Arwen there or not wouldn't change the fact that the LOTR movies would still make a lot of money. Maybe you should change your view about this a little bit and stay out of the negative thoughts (money).
They didn't put Arwen in there just so the feminists could have a rejoicing moment. They could have that through Eowyn. They've put Arwen in there not just so the guys could have a female character to drool over. It's not like while Arwen is saving Frodo, every males in the theater would say.."damn, that chick is hot." 🙄 They've put Arwen in there for a reason...to actually give her a CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT that could enhance the overall LOTR storyline. It's not just her own character she's developing. Aragorn and Eowyn's too.
Like I said, you're not the only one watching the movie. The movies are not made only for Tolkien purists. Try putting Arwen during the coronation without any introductions prior to that. I bet some movie-goers will say..."woah! What's Liv Tyler doing in there?" 🙄
By adding Arwen as a major character, they attracted more women to the cineplexes. I believe that was their goal, and that is wrong.
Making things up to sell more tickets? That's wrong.
And when you have such a long loved epic that has been read by millions, you need to stay with the story. I don't mind Hollywood altering some books, but not books as old and as loved as these. [/B]
I do think that your mind was already set even before you went and see the movies though. I just wish that you went watching the movie with an open mind. Otherwise, you could have just stayed at home and read your book for free.
Really? I guess we should hang PJ and all the filmmakers then. Those bastards.
Hey, I'm all for it. J/K
Money is beside the point. After all, what type of media doesn't do whatever they do because of the money as one of the reasons? Harry Potter movies being made was also for the money, the Matrix movies, especially the sequels were made also for the money, Britney Spears kept on recording her songs for the money. Money is one of the reasons why EVERYTHING is being made. Besides the biological factors of course.
I'll give you that money is why most people do things, but if they did it right, they would have sold millions of tickets anyway. It's when people put money over something so special when I have a problem.
Putting Arwen there or not wouldn't change the fact that the LOTR movies would still make a lot of money. Maybe you should change your view about this a little bit and stay out of the negative thoughts (money).
They didn't put Arwen in there just so the feminists could have a rejoicing moment. They could have that through Eowyn. They've put Arwen in there not just so the guys could have a female character to drool over. It's not like while Arwen is saving Frodo, every males in the theater would say.."damn, that chick is hot." 🙄 They've put Arwen in there for a reason...to actually give her a CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT that could enhance the overall LOTR storyline. It's not just her own character she's developing. Aragorn and Eowyn's too.
See, here's where we disagree. I really believe that they put the whole love story in there so more women would go.
Like I said, you're not the only one watching the movie. The movies are not made only for Tolkien purists. Try putting Arwen during the coronation without any introductions prior to that. I bet some movie-goers will say..."woah! What's Liv Tyler doing in there?" 🙄
That might encourage people to......dare I say it, read!
Believe what you want. It's just sad that you really have to give negative reasons just so you could prove your point that what they did is wrong. I mean, what is right and what is wrong exactly? You can't say that something is wrong because for some people, they are right.
No, it's a shame when you change things like that. Say we made a movie about the bible (BTW I'm not Christian I'm just using this as a reconizable example). Let's say to "enhance" the story of the Exodus we decide that Moses is going to have a love interest in the Pharoah's court. We could take this throughout the whole story until she meets him in Canaan (which he never made it), and they get married and live happily ever after. Would people go for that? I doubt it. Changing art like that is just not right. If you say it is, then let's go get the Mona Lisa and repaint it so she's smiling. Then we can all feel happy.
Whoever told you that they did it just for the tickets? You're too condemnatory it's not even funny. Yeah, you believe that they did it because of the tickets, and yet you actually purchased it.
Yes I did. And believe it or not, I actually enjoyed most of the movies. They were awesome as far as costumes and effects. My problem is changing the storyline. Arwen should not have a major role, Gandalf and Shadowfax have not been together these many ages (an important part when they get to Medulsed), Eomer was in Helm's Deep at the battle, etc. And to someone who loves the books as much as I do, it starts to get annoying.
They do stay with the story. Aragorn was made King, the Ring was destroyed, Sauron is the main evil villain, they went to Moria, to Fangorn Forest, and all that. Just because they altered some scenes doesn't mean that they don't stay with the storyline.
If that's your criteria for sticking to the story, then why make the movies at all? Those things happen in the cartoons they made in the seventies.
I do think that your mind was already set even before you went and see the movies though. I just wish that you went watching the movie with an open mind. Otherwise, you could have just stayed at home and read your book for free.
I went to see "The Fellowship..." with a very closed mind. I left loving it for the most part. I went to go see The Two Towers" and was very excited. I came home disappointed. " The Return of the King" was everyithing I wanted and more when I first watched it. By the time I got to the car, I was rethinking that. By the time a week went by, I didn't like it. I may buy the DVD to see it again. Maybe if I watch all three of them, I'll like them more. Or maybe I can watch them and close my eyes during the parts that they added?
Originally posted by Ddraiglais
Let's say to "enhance" the story of the Exodus we decide that Moses is going to have a love interest in the Pharoah's court. We could take this throughout the whole story until she meets him in Canaan (which he never made it), and they get married and live happily ever after. Would people go for that? I doubt it.
Originally posted by Ddraiglais
I'll give you that money is why most people do things, but if they did it right, they would have sold millions of tickets anyway. It's when people put money over something so special when I have a problem.
1. To stay believable and realistic - not everything that works in the books could work in three dimensional movies. Sure we're talking about fantasy and Middle-earth but there are still some areas where our believability suspensions have limits. Not everything could be well translated into film. (and please don't insert the money argument again. Don't tell me that they should even sacrifice the believability of the movies just so you could have everything that you're asking for, to the point that only YOU could understand and tolerate the movies.)
2. Time issues - you couldn't translate everything in 3 and a half hour movie and actually expect that everyone will like it. It would also be the main weak point of the movie; it wouldn't be the great movie that it is right now if they translated every bits and pieces of everything from the book.
See, here's where we disagree. I really believe that they put the whole love story in there so more women would go.
No, it's a shame when you change things like that. Say we made a movie about the bible (BTW I'm not Christian I'm just using this as a reconizable example). Let's say to "enhance" the story of the Exodus we decide that Moses is going to have a love interest in the Pharoah's court. We could take this throughout the whole story until she meets him in Canaan (which he never made it), and they get married and live happily ever after. Would people go for that? I doubt it. Changing art like that is just not right.
If you say it is, then let's go get the Mona Lisa and repaint it so she's smiling. Then we can all feel happy.
Gandalf and Shadowfax have not been together these many ages (an important part when they get to Medulsed)
Their friendship's origin is only very minor compared to the other things that the movie have to take time to develop. Let's just be grateful that at least Shadowfax exists in the movie, and we actually got to have an ethereal scene where he was introduced and his name was told to millions of people who were watching.
Eomer was in Helm's Deep at the battle, etc.
If that's your criteria for sticking to the story, then why make the movies at all?
The Return of the King" was everyithing I wanted and more when I first watched it. By the time I got to the car, I was rethinking that. By the time a week went by, I didn't like it.[/b]
I may buy the DVD to see it again. Maybe if I watch all three of them, I'll like them more. Or maybe I can watch them and close my eyes during the parts that they added?
LOL, I know. 😛 I didn't actually intended it at first. I just thought that maybe I could answer some of Ddraiglais complaints and then that's it. But obviously, this discussion kinda went far. 😛
LOL..sorry Aniron. 🙂
Kit, just a question though. Is it OK? Or do we have to take this discussion in other threads? 😕