Billy Cobham and "Best Drummer."

Started by amd99991 pages

Billy Cobham and "Best Drummer."

First of all, there is no such thing as the "best drummer." That is a crazy term that means nothing. What really counts is who your favorite drummer is, right? But there are obviously drummers who are better than others. This is the first guy to unseat Buddy Rich in the Downbeat polls.

One of the best drummers of all time when it comes to technique, power, velocity, timing, speed, phrasing, influence, etc., is definitely Billy Cobham. I have seen him live, and his shows are absolutely incendiary. If you are into drums and aren't familiar with his work, you probably should be. You have heard his influence in other drummers, such as Neal Peart.

He has two live concert DVDs that are worth seeing.

Here is a great quote that I found on the Web.

"The jazz-fusion era produced three great drummers: Lenny White, who played with Return to Forever; Alphonse Mouzon, who worked with Weather Report; and Billy Cobham. Of the three, the Panamanian-born Cobham is without question the most fearsome. Cobham has fashioned a unique style that combines the brain-melting power of hard-rock rhythm keepers with the agility of jazz men: imagine Led Zeppelin's John Bonham, the Who's Keith Moon and Elvin Jones all rolled into a singularly gifted musician.

The career of pioneering drummer-composer-bandleader Billy Cobham is well into its fourth decade. The man is all but worshipped today as a master drummer responsible for raising the bar in the areas of style and technical proficiency. The first stickman to unseat Buddy Rich in the DownBeat readers poll, Cobham is responsible for some of the most awesome displays of drumming ever witnessed. "

Rudiments: The Billy Cobham Anthology CD (recommended)
Not for the terminally jittery, high-energy jazz-rock fusion drummer Billy Cobham's anthology of his Atlantic Records tenure from 1973's Spectrum until 1978's Inner Conflicts is like a straight shot of double espresso to the brain. Arguably his most inspired solo years, and certainly his most prolific, these 24 tracks spread over two discs capture every rimshot, roll and kick of one of music's best and most respected drummers. Fresh out of the legendary original version of John McLaughlin's Mahavisnu Orchestra -- one of the first popular jazz-rock fusion outfits and still one of the finest -- Cobham exploded with his debut Spectrum, still his best selling album. With a stellar supporting cast featuring rocker Tommy Bolin (Deep Purple, James Gang) on guitar as well as fellow Mahavishnu-man Jan Hammer on keyboards, Spectrum remains the stickman's finest hour as well as a textbook example of how a drummer can construct a cohesive album around his talents without resorting to overlong solos. This compilation kicks off with over a half-hour of music from the groundbreaking disc.

- his collection of his best work for the Atlantic label does a tremendous job in presenting these tracks ó many of which have never been available on CD -- in terrific sound where Cobham's incendiary trap-work can be best appreciated in the context of his amazing bands. On many cuts, it sounds like there are at least two drummers playing simultaneously, but it's just Billy's two hands and feet flailing away with lightning precision."

Yeah, coz I'm sure none of us had heard anything of Billy Cobham or his works.

Of course there can be such a thing as Best Drummer. If you break down ability, you can clearly see what drummers are better than others.

-AC

Newsflash: Billy Cobham is virtually an unknown by many musicians. So is Dennis Chambers. So are many great musicians.

Anyone who thinks that there is a best drummer, best guitarist, etc., doesn't know much about music.

That's just about as dumb as the "fastest drummer" thing.

When you are 16 years old, you can say that someone is the best ______ (whatever). But if you know anything about music, you realize that there are too many subjective and objective variables in music to make such a statement.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, coz I'm sure none of us had heard anything of Billy Cobham or his works.

Of course there can be such a thing as Best Drummer. If you break down ability, you can clearly see what drummers are better than others.

-AC

Originally posted by amd9999
there are too many subjective and objective variables in music to make such a statement.

I totally agree.

To claim that one is the best drummer or guitarist is also a moot task because no one person is familiar with all of the world's guitarists and drummers. I often used to say that there is someone sitting in a garage somewhere who could be one of the greatest musicians alive, but whether it is a lack of exposure, desire to be famous or some other reason they will never be recognized.

A very good friend of mine is the third most talented guitarist that I have ever seen play live (the first two are Lindsay Buckinham and Stevie Ray Vaughn). He loves to play, it is all that he does other than work, eat, sleep and play golf, but he does not wish to be famous, or play as a career. There are many musicians out there in the world such as he.

There aren't many guitarists in the world such as Jimi Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen.

If you believe there are or there could be just based off "Well we don't know them ALL", then you really don't know much of music.

If someone can do things with an instrument that no one else could do, or make music with that instrument that nobody else could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

The greatest in your opinion, perhaps. KharmaDog's post was very well written. He hit the nail on the head with that.

In my opinion, John McLaughlin is best guitarist that I have ever seen or heard. What does that mean to the average dude? Not much!

Certainly there are musicians who are better than others. But when you get up into the upper tier, such as Rich-Cobham-Chambers-Williams, etc., it becomes more a matter of whose style you prefer.

Well... it doesn't change the fact that Jimi Hendrix did things on a guitar that nobody before and nobody since. There are better TECHNICAL guitarists, but overall he's widely accepted to be the best. It's as borderline official as you'll get.

No drummer I've ever seen or heard can do what Terry Bozzio does on a drum kit, technically. Even if they could learn it, they couldn't have come up with it. Which is my point.

Yes, just because I don't know all the musicians in the world, doesn't mean there isn't anyone better, right? Well, doesn't mean there is either.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If you believe there are or there could be just based off "Well we don't know them ALL", then you really don't know much of music.

Actually I know quite abit about music, just because I disagree with you does not mean that your knowledge of music is superior to mine or anyone elses'.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If someone can do things with an instrument that no one else could do, or make music with that instrument that nobody else could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

No it doesn't. If a guy gets up on stage and shoves a Gibson up his ass (a feat that no one has done before) he is not looked upon as a great guitarist. People who bring something "new" to the way an instrument is played is considered an innovator. An innovator may be looked upon later in years as truly great.

But to be "The Greatest" means that someone would have to play with the innovation of Hendrix, the technical ability of Clapton, the soul of SRV, the heart of B.B., the dexterity of Methany, the improvasational aptitude of Buckingham and the combinations of of other traits from a thousand guitarists. That person does not exist, that person will never exist.

Sorry, I know we're talking about drummers, but I am an axe-man myself so I refered to guitarists to try to make my point.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Actually I know quite abit about music, just because I disagree with you does not mean that your knowledge of music is superior to mine or anyone elses'.

The 'you' was general. Stop making assumptions, you know what they say about assumptions.

No, disagreeing with me doesn't mean you're inferior in any way, nor would I try to make it seem such. It is possible to have superior musical knowledge however. Seeing as neither of us really know how far the other's musical knowledge extends, I don't think we can make those calls, or that it would matter if we could.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
No it doesn't. If a guy gets up on stage and shoves a Gibson up his ass (a feat that no one has done before) he is not looked upon as a great guitarist. People who bring something "new" to the way an instrument is played is considered an innovator. An innovator may be looked upon later in years as truly great.

Possibly the worst analogy I've ever seen, and that's saying something. It has nothing to do with musical or instrumental aptitude, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Yeah, loads of innovators are truly great but originators are the best innovators. I'm innovative when it comes to KMC, I single handedly brought about an addition to the way KMC works with the way I post. It doesn't mean I can go and create another KMC.

Working with what's there, regardless of how well you do it, will hardly ever be as good as someone who made the things you're working with.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
But to be "The Greatest" means that someone would have to play with the innovation of Hendrix, the technical ability of Clapton, the soul of SRV, the heart of B.B., the dexterity of Methany, the improvasational aptitude of Buckingham and the combinations of of other traits from a thousand guitarists. That person does not exist, that person will never exist.

That would be the undeniable, factual best guitarist. Obviously there isn't a factual best, but there is one who is viewed as the best unquestionably. That man is Hendrix.

Given that he died in his mid 20s and had already done things that are unmatched today, pretty much says it all for me.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Sorry, I know we're talking about drummers, but I am an axe-man myself so I refered to guitarists to try to make my point.

Yeah, apologies for derailing a bit. Is all within context though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Possibly the worst analogy I've ever seen, and that's saying something. It has nothing to do with musical or instrumental aptitude, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

It is a over exagerated example that doing something new and different does not make you nessecarily great. Possibly a bad example, but it made me laugh when I thought of it, so I just had to write it down.