i think your mistaken xplosive, if uve read any of the latest hellblazer comics, ud know that the great beast is the equal and opposite of the presence, the great beast is actually the TRUE FIRST FALLEN, meaning that it has power equal to the presence.{the presence>god, god and everything else that exists follows the presence's master plan[which is as yet unknow]}
Originally posted by eleveninches
it was in lucifer #49, where that woman was said to be the widow of god.and a few issues later (i think it was either the one where rudd gets the key to effrul, or it might have been a much earlier issue) one of the 2 angels that were in control of hell gets paranoid about god being dead, and says "god is NOT dead. He's just left the universe"
The widow thing could be metaphorical. The meaning of it might be that the woman was widowed in the sense that the Presence left the universe and wont come back ever again(just like being dead), because Michael said God left creation, "forever".
And can you tell me who told this 2 angels that God is dead? Because I would much rather believe Michael(the right hand man of Presence) and Berim.
And, lionheartmm is right, Xplosive. It was stated that the Great Evil Beast is the exact opposite of the Presence, and is equal to him. He also existed long before the Presence did. You should really read Hellblazer.
The Great Beast was NOT allowed in Creation and was sleeping in hell, who is the ONLY 1 powerful enough to make that happen?? THE PRESENCE 😛 it is also been called The Primordial Shadow, Satan, The First of the Fallen, The Great Beast was here before God (the Word) but not before The Presence,The First was ripped out of The Presence so of course it would prob be equal to him it was a part of him at 1 time. The Great Evil Beast WANTED to know WHY IT WAS HERE... and where did it go??? it went to Heaven to try to get its answer... the Great Beast was a WOMAN a long time ago, this fits in with The First of the Fallen story line as the First was His confidant and conscience (woman), The First was the the first being EVER created, even before God(The Word). Lucifer and Michael. and when they say the exact opposite i believe it is the darkness and presence is the light and are also meaning it is a woman, but i am sure a being that powerful can turn itself into ANYTHING it wants, him/her/it whatever....... They both have been called the TRUE Satan....i would still put The Presence above The Great Evil Beast. he the Real God/"The Presence"/Jehovah/Yahweh/TOAA whatever ppl want to call him the Only person that is good enough and strong enough and has proven himself worthy enough to sit next to him is Jesus Christ his only real son.
kevdude, where did you get this idea that the Presence didnt allow The Great Evil Beast from entering creation? where did you get this from. All the Great Evil Beast was doing was sleeping ever since it CAME INTO EXISTENCE. It never woke up before. The only time it woke up was at the present time. And that time, the Presence WASNT able to stop TGEB from entering creation. I mean the Presence even sent Spectre to subdue TGEB because he/she/it is a threat to the whole creation.
Again, the fact remains that they are equal. The Presence has a bit of an advantage because he has the power of Light over TGEB's darkness, THATS IT. Everything else, theyre equal. And no, TGEB existed BEFORE the Presence, thats a fact.
And what's with this The Word being God???? You know what The Word is right? The Word came into existence when GOD HIMSELF first spoke. So he is most definitely NOT God.
The Presence is God in the Vertigo/DC Universe. There is no God below or above him and some stuff like that. He IS God.
Originally posted by Synchro
kevdude, where did you get this idea that the Presence didnt allow The Great Evil Beast from entering creation? where did you get this from. All the Great Evil Beast was doing was sleeping ever since it CAME INTO EXISTENCE. It never woke up before. The only time it woke up was at the present time. And that time, the Presence WASNT able to stop TGEB from entering creation. I mean the Presence even sent Spectre to subdue TGEB because he/she/it is a threat to the whole creation.Again, the fact remains that they are equal. The Presence has a bit of an advantage because he has the power of Light over TGEB's darkness, THATS IT. Everything else, theyre equal. And no, TGEB existed BEFORE the Presence, thats a fact.
And what's with this The Word being God???? You know what The Word is right? The Word came into existence when GOD HIMSELF first spoke. So he is most definitely NOT God.
The Presence is God in the Vertigo/DC Universe. There is no God below or above him and some stuff like that. He IS God.
If Great Beast was before Presence, who is than creator of all eixstnce in DC, someone has to create Great Beast and The Presence. So God=TOAA in Marvel Universe is the real Almighty God, the one who all created, the one who is eternal, who creted all, The PResence doens't equal Almighy God or Marvel TOAA, Creator of all that it is. I always though The PResence is equal to Almighty God or to Marvel TOAA, no TOAA>The Presence, the fact is that someone had to create The Presence and Great Beast (so those two are not forever), like TOAA created all, someone created them, The Presence and The Great Beast. So logically there should be force above those two in DC.
ok first off NOBODY created The PRESENCE he IS God/Jhvh/yhwh/alah but they just use The Presence as another name, The Presence is forever and forever.. 2nd The Word IS God in the FLESH. to prove my point here is 2 sites:
http://dcu.smartmemes.com/DCTL_1_TL.html
http://www.crossandthrone.com/archives/000018.php
now to answer the Great Beast question, have u ever wondered why it was sleeping??? have u ever wondered why something THAT powerful was sleeping??? if something that powerful was sleeping beyond the edge of hell it MUST have been awake at 1 time and someone MUST HAVE put it their. Now The Great Beast HAS been sleeping since the Dawn of Time or Creation, what does that mean??? it WAS AWAKE before that time.... it WAS NOT allowed in Creation. to prove that point here is 2 links but u have to read almost half way down in the first Link to find where it talks about The Great Evil Beast and Spectre and The Presence...the 2nd link u will have to look most of the way down and look for at the beginning June-August 1986 . and The Presence DID start fighting The Great Beast but they stopped since they knew each other was vitally needed...
http://rhandley.0catch.com/swampthing/Chrono-06.htm
http://polisci.spc.uchicago.edu/~jtlevy/Psrev.html
hope this clears up everything, The First of the Fallen IS The Great Evil Beast, The Presence threw him out of Heaven into a hell of its own choosing. they both have been said to be the TRUE Satan, their can only be 1 true satan so they must be the same being. ty ty 🙂
Originally posted by kevdude
ok first off NOBODY created The PRESENCE he IS God/Jhvh/yhwh/alah but they just use The Presence as another name, The Presence is forever and forever.. 2nd The Word IS God in the FLESH. to prove my point here is 2 sites:
http://dcu.smartmemes.com/DCTL_1_TL.html
http://www.crossandthrone.com/archives/000018.phpnow to answer the Great Beast question, have u ever wondered why it was sleeping??? have u ever wondered why something THAT powerful was sleeping??? if something that powerful was sleeping beyond the edge of hell it MUST have been awake at 1 time and someone MUST HAVE put it their. Now The Great Beast HAS been sleeping since the Dawn of Time or Creation, what does that mean??? it WAS AWAKE before that time.... it WAS NOT allowed in Creation. to prove that point here is 2 links but u have to read almost half way down in the first Link to find where it talks about The Great Evil Beast and Spectre and The Presence...the 2nd link u will have to look most of the way down and look for at the beginning June-August 1986 . and The Presence DID start fighting The Great Beast but they stopped since they knew each other was vitally needed...
http://rhandley.0catch.com/swampthing/Chrono-06.htm
http://polisci.spc.uchicago.edu/~jtlevy/Psrev.html
hope this clears up everything, The First of the Fallen IS The Great Evil Beast, The Presence threw him out of Heaven into a hell of its own choosing. they both have been said to be the TRUE Satan, their can only be 1 true satan so they must be the same being. ty ty 🙂
But The Presence and Great Beast are two different beigns. Logicly The Presnce should be much more powerful, and readin this, he is, beacuse he was the one who thre Great Beast down. And isn't Lucifer true ruller of Hell (I mean he was created after Great Beast and...) and why DC stadted that Lucifer and Michael are beyond anyone in DC Universe, except The Presence. And now, logicly, Great BEast should be no problem for The PResence and God=The Presence and if God ther Great Beast down of its own choosing, than this should be over, that cleraly says God is only one who is almighty.
Originally posted by Mider
How is TOAA more powerful then The Presance thats stuipd the uber team would win TOAA has power over the MU so what the DCU has beings with alot more power then the MU this is a joke that TOAA would win.
TOAA is not more pwoerful thaan The Presence, they are equal. Anyway Lucifer shouldn't be even comapred to TOAA.
TOAA= greater than the power of the entire marvel reality including the multiverse, the beyond realm and anything and everything
however nearly half of the power of the dc reality is taken up by THE GREAT BEAST and the reamaining half by the presence, which means that if we are to believe that marvel = dc {which is a good assumption but can no doubt be argued upon} then to beat TOAA you wud wanna have the combined powers of the presence and the great beast, not just the presence alone, anyway thas how i see it, im sure different people have different points of view